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Transportation economics are dominated by the passengers per pilot ratio. Small vehicles aren't economic unless they are piloted by a passenger or an AI. AI pi

Transportation economics are dominated by the passengers per pilot ratio. Small vehicles aren't economic unless they are piloted by a passenger or an AI. AI piloting should be easier with aircraft than cars.

drexlspivey 4y ago
Fuel costs are in the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars per flight. Surely that’s much more expensive than the pilot costs?
- redleader55 4y ago
  According to [1] fuel costs are in the tens of thousands for intercontinental flights. Pilot training is around 200k USD [2] and thousands of hours to be accepted to fly reputable companies' planes. I wouldn't call pilot costs negligible. [1] - https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/commercial-airliner-fuel-cost/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/commercial-air... [2] - https://fly-ga.co.uk/how-much-cost-become-pilot-learn-fly/ https://fly-ga.co.uk/how-much-cost-become-pilot-learn-fly/
  - hef19898 4y ago
    We are living in a world were co-pilots sometimes pay to be allow?d to fly in order to get flight hours in towards type ratings and promotions. Initial pilot trainig through airlines, and paid by those with almost guaranteed employment afterwards, is a thing of the past. Most pilots pay for their own training now. Ehich leaves salaries, which are indeed negligable. Even if you accoubt for training costs, those are negiligable whem compared to fuel, maintenance,...
  - ledauphin 4y ago
    Consider that, as a ballpark average, a commercial pilot gets paid maybe ~$200/hour for their work. Double that if you're feeling generous. Whereas total operating costs for a 737 is somewhere in the $5000-$10000/hour range. That doesn't include airport fees, either. The cost of pilots next to the cost fuel+maintenance+everything else is...pretty negligible.
- beefman 4y ago
  For commercial jetliners? Yes, but they have a very high passenger:pilot ratio already. Also, the order is tens of thousands (for a typical transatlantic flight). Across transportation modalities, fuel costs are usually a minor contributor to total cost. For a commercial airline flight, about 10% of ticket price. See also, this comment of mine on a recent story about the Joby eVTOL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29705650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29705650
ledauphin 4y ago
This is simply incorrect. The dominant costs are maintenance, followed by fuel. Even the tiniest and cheapest of trainer airplanes usually break down their cost structure as follows: engine/maintenance costs: ~$90/hour fuel costs: ~$60/hour instructor fee: ~$60/hour As airframes get larger and engines get more powerful, the cost of maintenance and fuel goes up astonishingly quickly - but it's rare to pay more than $100/hour for instruction. Once you get into turboprop and very small jet aircraft, you're talking one to several thousand dollars an hour in operating costs, which no pilot has ever been paid.
- beefman 4y ago
  Sorry if it wasn't clear, my comment doesn't just refer to aircraft but to all means of mass transportation, with units of USD per passenger mile. It's based on extensive analysis but is also pretty obvious when you think about it. Yes, as the passenger:pilot ratio gets high, other costs will exceed the pilot's salary. In the case of a Cessna 172 (for example), even if the pilot works for free, 25% of the vehicle's capacity is wasted, unless the pilot is also a passenger. This isn't true in the case of the general population so these planes aren't used for mass transportation.

drexlspivey 4y ago

Fuel costs are in the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars per flight. Surely that’s much more expensive than the pilot costs?

redleader55 4y ago
According to [1] fuel costs are in the tens of thousands for intercontinental flights. Pilot training is around 200k USD [2] and thousands of hours to be accepted to fly reputable companies' planes. I wouldn't call pilot costs negligible. [1] - https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/commercial-airliner-fuel-cost/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/commercial-air... [2] - https://fly-ga.co.uk/how-much-cost-become-pilot-learn-fly/ https://fly-ga.co.uk/how-much-cost-become-pilot-learn-fly/
- hef19898 4y ago
  We are living in a world were co-pilots sometimes pay to be allow?d to fly in order to get flight hours in towards type ratings and promotions. Initial pilot trainig through airlines, and paid by those with almost guaranteed employment afterwards, is a thing of the past. Most pilots pay for their own training now. Ehich leaves salaries, which are indeed negligable. Even if you accoubt for training costs, those are negiligable whem compared to fuel, maintenance,...
- ledauphin 4y ago
  Consider that, as a ballpark average, a commercial pilot gets paid maybe ~$200/hour for their work. Double that if you're feeling generous. Whereas total operating costs for a 737 is somewhere in the $5000-$10000/hour range. That doesn't include airport fees, either. The cost of pilots next to the cost fuel+maintenance+everything else is...pretty negligible.
beefman 4y ago
For commercial jetliners? Yes, but they have a very high passenger:pilot ratio already. Also, the order is tens of thousands (for a typical transatlantic flight). Across transportation modalities, fuel costs are usually a minor contributor to total cost. For a commercial airline flight, about 10% of ticket price. See also, this comment of mine on a recent story about the Joby eVTOL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29705650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29705650

ledauphin 4y ago

This is simply incorrect. The dominant costs are maintenance, followed by fuel. Even the tiniest and cheapest of trainer airplanes usually break down their cost structure as follows: engine/maintenance costs: ~$90/hour fuel costs: ~$60/hour instructor fee: ~$60/hour As airframes get larger and engines get more powerful, the cost of maintenance and fuel goes up astonishingly quickly - but it's rare to pay more than $100/hour for instruction. Once you get into turboprop and very small jet aircraft, you're talking one to several thousand dollars an hour in operating costs, which no pilot has ever been paid.

beefman 4y ago
Sorry if it wasn't clear, my comment doesn't just refer to aircraft but to all means of mass transportation, with units of USD per passenger mile. It's based on extensive analysis but is also pretty obvious when you think about it. Yes, as the passenger:pilot ratio gets high, other costs will exceed the pilot's salary. In the case of a Cessna 172 (for example), even if the pilot works for free, 25% of the vehicle's capacity is wasted, unless the pilot is also a passenger. This isn't true in the case of the general population so these planes aren't used for mass transportation.