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This is a really good video about how Apple cares about being pixel perfect compared to Windows with something simple and obvious like the mouse cursor icon: h

by dmix 4y ago

This is a really good video about how Apple cares about being pixel perfect compared to Windows with something simple and obvious like the mouse cursor icon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThelfB2fvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThelfB2fvg The improvements he made are also quite nice, Microsoft should take note...

chrismorgan 4y ago
You can’t tell me Apple cares about pixel perfection when they implement fractional scaling (which, last time I heard, was I think effectively the only choice on most of their laptops) with rendering at the next integer up and downscaling. Basically Apple have made it so that it’s literally impossible to be pixel perfect, even though they were in the best position by far to force developers to do it properly, in those few where it didn’t Just Work. Microsoft’s approach to fractional scaling is incomparably more sensible, and Wayland is finally heading towards being able to handle it properly (though I find it quite ridiculous that they didn’t just start by doing it properly).
- paldepind2 4y ago
  How did Wayland do it initially and how are they doing it now?
- grishka 4y ago
  Actually no. The latest generation of MacBooks increases the screen dpi and the default setting is actual real 2x scaling. Though it doesn't help much because see my reply to the parent comment. It's noticeable on retina too, just not as much.
grishka 4y ago
Apple gives no shit about being pixel-perfect lately. Try using modern macOS on a non-retina display and your eyes will bleed because every single icon is drawn as if there's no pixel grid whatsoever. Everything is a blurry mess. Steve Jobs would've definitely fired someone over this, yet with Tim Cook it stays unfixed for more than 2 years — I'd guess because pixel-perfect icons don't affect the bottom line.
- gabereiser 4y ago
  To be fair, if you are trying it on a non-retina display, you’re out of spec or running hackintosh. Aren’t all mac’s retina? edit I totally forgot about plug-in external displays… in which case, ya need 1440p or better.
  - deergomoo 4y ago
    > in which case, ya need 1440p or better You can’t really get 1440p monitors any smaller than 27” though. And I have a (really quite good) 27” 1440p monitor and it looks like dog shit on macOS. Same monitor under Windows looks great. Sure it doesn’t hold a candle to my MacBook’s own 220ppi screen but it handily outclasses whatever the hell macOS is doing at 1x scaling
  - grishka 4y ago
    Apple still sells Macs that don't come with a screen. If someone buys a Mac Mini, chances are high that they will plug into it the monitor they already own, which most probably won't be retina. I do use a 1440p monitor. The blurriness is still very much noticeable. It was much better on Mojave when all icons were drawn to the pixel grid. And yes I'd buy a 5K monitor, which is the retina equivalent of 1440p, but these things aren't exactly easy to come by. Besides the blurriness is still visible even on retina displays, it's just not as pronounced.
- deergomoo 4y ago
  It really is appalling. It’s not just icons; if you switch Finder to gallery view and look at some photos, the previews aren’t scaled properly. The only way I can describe it is that it looks like it was downsampled without any blending—as if they just picked every fourth pixel or something. Really jaggedy. I fully appreciate that it’s never gonna look anywhere near as good as a display with 4x as many pixels, but it’s really, really bad. The same monitor on a Windows machine looks great!
- Macha 4y ago
  Did some rearranging of my desks to seperate my work and play spaces, so my work from home desk now has a 1080p 21" monitor. It's amazing how not built for that modern macOS is. Even font rendering is a disaster again.
WHA8m 4y ago
It's a catastrophe with windows. Make two windows snap to the borders, so together they're fullscreen? 2 pixel gap between the windows; 1 pixel gap at the right, left and upper side; 2 pixel gap to the windows bar at the bottom. How can this be so hard? And even if it's hard, this is so obvious you really want to fix it.
- layer8 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure it’s a deliberate choice for some reason, though I agree that it’s hideous.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
Really wish people who cared that much worked on the actual OS. Still can't get over on Windows how 1 in 3 times when you move it to the edge of a window (might just be the lower left edge) the resize cursor appears gigantic and glitched out for a single frame. Really don't understand how they either don't notice that stuff or just say "Yeah it's fine, just ship it". I know you can say "well it still works, it doesn't alter the functionality" but what if like every 3rd time you picked up a pencil I flashed a floodlight in your peripheral vision. Would probably push you out of your flow right?

by dmix 4y ago

chrismorgan 4y ago

You can’t tell me Apple cares about pixel perfection when they implement fractional scaling (which, last time I heard, was I think effectively the only choice on most of their laptops) with rendering at the next integer up and downscaling. Basically Apple have made it so that it’s literally impossible to be pixel perfect, even though they were in the best position by far to force developers to do it properly, in those few where it didn’t Just Work. Microsoft’s approach to fractional scaling is incomparably more sensible, and Wayland is finally heading towards being able to handle it properly (though I find it quite ridiculous that they didn’t just start by doing it properly).

paldepind2 4y ago
How did Wayland do it initially and how are they doing it now?
grishka 4y ago
Actually no. The latest generation of MacBooks increases the screen dpi and the default setting is actual real 2x scaling. Though it doesn't help much because see my reply to the parent comment. It's noticeable on retina too, just not as much.

grishka 4y ago

Apple gives no shit about being pixel-perfect lately. Try using modern macOS on a non-retina display and your eyes will bleed because every single icon is drawn as if there's no pixel grid whatsoever. Everything is a blurry mess. Steve Jobs would've definitely fired someone over this, yet with Tim Cook it stays unfixed for more than 2 years — I'd guess because pixel-perfect icons don't affect the bottom line.

gabereiser 4y ago
To be fair, if you are trying it on a non-retina display, you’re out of spec or running hackintosh. Aren’t all mac’s retina? edit I totally forgot about plug-in external displays… in which case, ya need 1440p or better.
- deergomoo 4y ago
  > in which case, ya need 1440p or better You can’t really get 1440p monitors any smaller than 27” though. And I have a (really quite good) 27” 1440p monitor and it looks like dog shit on macOS. Same monitor under Windows looks great. Sure it doesn’t hold a candle to my MacBook’s own 220ppi screen but it handily outclasses whatever the hell macOS is doing at 1x scaling
- grishka 4y ago
  Apple still sells Macs that don't come with a screen. If someone buys a Mac Mini, chances are high that they will plug into it the monitor they already own, which most probably won't be retina. I do use a 1440p monitor. The blurriness is still very much noticeable. It was much better on Mojave when all icons were drawn to the pixel grid. And yes I'd buy a 5K monitor, which is the retina equivalent of 1440p, but these things aren't exactly easy to come by. Besides the blurriness is still visible even on retina displays, it's just not as pronounced.
deergomoo 4y ago
It really is appalling. It’s not just icons; if you switch Finder to gallery view and look at some photos, the previews aren’t scaled properly. The only way I can describe it is that it looks like it was downsampled without any blending—as if they just picked every fourth pixel or something. Really jaggedy. I fully appreciate that it’s never gonna look anywhere near as good as a display with 4x as many pixels, but it’s really, really bad. The same monitor on a Windows machine looks great!
Macha 4y ago
Did some rearranging of my desks to seperate my work and play spaces, so my work from home desk now has a 1080p 21" monitor. It's amazing how not built for that modern macOS is. Even font rendering is a disaster again.

WHA8m 4y ago

It's a catastrophe with windows. Make two windows snap to the borders, so together they're fullscreen? 2 pixel gap between the windows; 1 pixel gap at the right, left and upper side; 2 pixel gap to the windows bar at the bottom. How can this be so hard? And even if it's hard, this is so obvious you really want to fix it.

layer8 4y ago
I’m pretty sure it’s a deliberate choice for some reason, though I agree that it’s hideous.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

Really wish people who cared that much worked on the actual OS. Still can't get over on Windows how 1 in 3 times when you move it to the edge of a window (might just be the lower left edge) the resize cursor appears gigantic and glitched out for a single frame. Really don't understand how they either don't notice that stuff or just say "Yeah it's fine, just ship it". I know you can say "well it still works, it doesn't alter the functionality" but what if like every 3rd time you picked up a pencil I flashed a floodlight in your peripheral vision. Would probably push you out of your flow right?