4 ms·

> Does it magically then not become "rent seeking" any more? The difference is that i can just stop buying the new stuff once the software does everything i ne

> Does it magically then not become "rent seeking" any more? The difference is that i can just stop buying the new stuff once the software does everything i need though. That way i might miss out on shiny new features, but as long as the thing i bought the software for gets done I really don't have a need to purchase new versions.

FireBeyond 4y ago
How long do you expect the version you own to be supported though? Security updates? Bug fixes? Feature requests?
- 7steps2much 4y ago
  I wouldn't expect feature updates at all. In my mind it works like this: New features are adding value. This is something that the developers should be paid for! Releasing a new version for features is justified. Security updates/bug fixes on the other hand are "fixing" things with their product. In my opinion those should be provided because developers should strive to develop good products. But to give you a somewhat more clear answer: I don't expect new features. I expect Security and bug updates until the next version+a bit of time. If there is a version released every year i would expect Security/bug fixes for at least one year. Two years would be the developers be great, three years would have me surprised. Anything beyond that would be far more than I ever expected.
  - FireBeyond 4y ago
    I think that's entirely reasonable. I'd be expecting two years, too as my "high end" expectation.
  - mbesto 4y ago
    > In my opinion those should be provided because developers should strive to develop good products. Developers also have to put food on the table. I think you've now answered your "is this hard to do?"...
    - 7steps2much 4y ago
      > I think you've now answered your "is this hard to do?"... Did i buy the product "as is"? If it is an open source product then i agree with you, the product is provided as is. However, in my mind this is not the case with a commerical products. When I buy something, whether it is software, a car or a a washing machine i have a contract that outlines what i am buying. If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. In many countries this might even be legally required (Look for Gewährleistung/Produkthaftung in German speaking countries). I am not asking for features. I am not asking you to make the product better than what I bought. I discovered a defect that was caused by the manufacturer, not obvious at the time of purchase and as such the product does not match what i ordered from the manufacturer. I am asking you to provide to me exactly on what we agreed upon in our contract. If a developer cannot handle that and wants to distribute their software "as is" that's fine, but that will result in my willingness to pay being lower. If I buy a product I expect that product to perform as was promised. If it does not and the manufacturer refuses to work with me then it's a breach or contract.
      - mbesto 4y ago
        > If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. This analogy doesn't work with software. If you put your fridge in your house and your power goes out, you can very clearly see that your fridge is inoperable because of your power, not the fridge. Now let's try this with software: - The software you buy supports Linux v16 but not v18. You upgrade to v18 not knowing and not your software is broken. But the software was sold to you to support v16 and not v18. - The software you buy supports API connections to Twilio. In the docs it says "easy to use extensible API for all SMS providers". Twilio discontinues its v1 API endpoint but your software only supports v1 and not v2. You decide to migrate to Plivo and everything works except for one API call that is used once every 3 months. And on and on and on...see the point? > I am asking you to provide to me exactly on what we agreed upon in our contract. Great, now the developer not only has to be a "good developer" but also an expert in contract writing (or has a lawyer that is). Or worse, the lawyer and developer must be completely and harmoniously in sync about product functionality and the contractually nature that you, the client, originally decided to sign the contract with. Note - In case you are unaware, software contracts are notoriously difficult to do well (see Google/Oracle debacle). > If I buy a product I expect that product to perform as was promised. If it does not and the manufacturer refuses to work with me then it's a breach or contract. I think you're going to find the more and more you explain your position the more and more you'll see that "why is this so hard" is truly...hard.

FireBeyond 4y ago

How long do you expect the version you own to be supported though? Security updates? Bug fixes? Feature requests?

7steps2much 4y ago
I wouldn't expect feature updates at all. In my mind it works like this: New features are adding value. This is something that the developers should be paid for! Releasing a new version for features is justified. Security updates/bug fixes on the other hand are "fixing" things with their product. In my opinion those should be provided because developers should strive to develop good products. But to give you a somewhat more clear answer: I don't expect new features. I expect Security and bug updates until the next version+a bit of time. If there is a version released every year i would expect Security/bug fixes for at least one year. Two years would be the developers be great, three years would have me surprised. Anything beyond that would be far more than I ever expected.
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  I think that's entirely reasonable. I'd be expecting two years, too as my "high end" expectation.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > In my opinion those should be provided because developers should strive to develop good products. Developers also have to put food on the table. I think you've now answered your "is this hard to do?"...
  - 7steps2much 4y ago
    > I think you've now answered your "is this hard to do?"... Did i buy the product "as is"? If it is an open source product then i agree with you, the product is provided as is. However, in my mind this is not the case with a commerical products. When I buy something, whether it is software, a car or a a washing machine i have a contract that outlines what i am buying. If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. In many countries this might even be legally required (Look for Gewährleistung/Produkthaftung in German speaking countries). I am not asking for features. I am not asking you to make the product better than what I bought. I discovered a defect that was caused by the manufacturer, not obvious at the time of purchase and as such the product does not match what i ordered from the manufacturer. I am asking you to provide to me exactly on what we agreed upon in our contract. If a developer cannot handle that and wants to distribute their software "as is" that's fine, but that will result in my willingness to pay being lower. If I buy a product I expect that product to perform as was promised. If it does not and the manufacturer refuses to work with me then it's a breach or contract.
    - mbesto 4y ago
      > If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. This analogy doesn't work with software. If you put your fridge in your house and your power goes out, you can very clearly see that your fridge is inoperable because of your power, not the fridge. Now let's try this with software: - The software you buy supports Linux v16 but not v18. You upgrade to v18 not knowing and not your software is broken. But the software was sold to you to support v16 and not v18. - The software you buy supports API connections to Twilio. In the docs it says "easy to use extensible API for all SMS providers". Twilio discontinues its v1 API endpoint but your software only supports v1 and not v2. You decide to migrate to Plivo and everything works except for one API call that is used once every 3 months. And on and on and on...see the point? > I am asking you to provide to me exactly on what we agreed upon in our contract. Great, now the developer not only has to be a "good developer" but also an expert in contract writing (or has a lawyer that is). Or worse, the lawyer and developer must be completely and harmoniously in sync about product functionality and the contractually nature that you, the client, originally decided to sign the contract with. Note - In case you are unaware, software contracts are notoriously difficult to do well (see Google/Oracle debacle). > If I buy a product I expect that product to perform as was promised. If it does not and the manufacturer refuses to work with me then it's a breach or contract. I think you're going to find the more and more you explain your position the more and more you'll see that "why is this so hard" is truly...hard.