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“It is impossible for libre software to force updates” This isn’t even close to being true

by imwillofficial 4y ago

netr0ute 4y ago
Any evidence to back that up?
- terhechte 4y ago
  I think Gnome / GTK is a good example. Famously, the Budgie Desktop Environment will have to be rewritten on top of Enlightenment because they don't like the GTK 4 changes. So now they're forced to go to a different widget system. [1] [1] https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-ecosystem/ https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-...
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    Its a technical decision. Nobody is forcing them to do anything.
  - lal 4y ago
    Sure, that's a good example of something else, but do you have any examples of any forced updates?
  - freedomben 4y ago
    Your use of "forced" is interesting, because to me that doesn't sound like "force" at all, rather a "we don't like this thing so we're moving" which is a free choice for technical reasons. Force to me is like what Amazon does with kindles. If it connects to the internet, it will update to the latest version whether you want it to or not. If you don't connect it to the internet, you can't use it.
hansvm 4y ago
If it did you'd just build a version with the offensive code removed?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Ah yes. I have the time and the knowledge to "just" remove that code and "just" build that version. When even the simplest libraries can't usually be built using the instructions the authors leave for them (if they even do that)
  - freedomben 4y ago
    You don't have to remove the code, you can just pin the version you're using and go for quite some time (sensitive to security context). Most builds are pretty easy to do with 5 minutes of following instructions or whatever build tool. I did this exactly thing with termux (an app I relied on) when they removed sending sms due to a google rule change. Also, you only have to do it if you're the only one left. Chances are very good that there are others in the community that may step up wholly or in part. Sure the risk is non-zero, but the point of freedom is that you could if it came to that.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    Maybe you don't, but somebody else does.
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  If you have the skills. The large majority of humanity does not
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    That's like saying that hardware should be only repairable by vendor because majority of humanity doesn't have skills to fix it themselves.
    - Raymonf 4y ago
      That's not even close to what they said. They said, you can do it "if you have the skills" and that "the large majority of humanity does not" have these skills.

“It is impossible for libre software to force updates” This isn’t even close to being true

netr0ute 4y ago

Any evidence to back that up?

terhechte 4y ago
I think Gnome / GTK is a good example. Famously, the Budgie Desktop Environment will have to be rewritten on top of Enlightenment because they don't like the GTK 4 changes. So now they're forced to go to a different widget system. [1] [1] https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-ecosystem/ https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-...
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Its a technical decision. Nobody is forcing them to do anything.
- lal 4y ago
  Sure, that's a good example of something else, but do you have any examples of any forced updates?
- freedomben 4y ago
  Your use of "forced" is interesting, because to me that doesn't sound like "force" at all, rather a "we don't like this thing so we're moving" which is a free choice for technical reasons. Force to me is like what Amazon does with kindles. If it connects to the internet, it will update to the latest version whether you want it to or not. If you don't connect it to the internet, you can't use it.

hansvm 4y ago

If it did you'd just build a version with the offensive code removed?

dmitriid 4y ago
Ah yes. I have the time and the knowledge to "just" remove that code and "just" build that version. When even the simplest libraries can't usually be built using the instructions the authors leave for them (if they even do that)
- freedomben 4y ago
  You don't have to remove the code, you can just pin the version you're using and go for quite some time (sensitive to security context). Most builds are pretty easy to do with 5 minutes of following instructions or whatever build tool. I did this exactly thing with termux (an app I relied on) when they removed sending sms due to a google rule change. Also, you only have to do it if you're the only one left. Chances are very good that there are others in the community that may step up wholly or in part. Sure the risk is non-zero, but the point of freedom is that you could if it came to that.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  Maybe you don't, but somebody else does.
imwillofficial 4y ago
If you have the skills. The large majority of humanity does not
- wiseowise 4y ago
  That's like saying that hardware should be only repairable by vendor because majority of humanity doesn't have skills to fix it themselves.
  - Raymonf 4y ago
    That's not even close to what they said. They said, you can do it "if you have the skills" and that "the large majority of humanity does not" have these skills.