3 ms·

> Lastly you say "None of these things are a big ask.", you just want the world on a silver platter for no cost, sorry but that is a big ask, Silver platter? L

by tharne 4y ago

> Lastly you say "None of these things are a big ask.", you just want the world on a silver platter for no cost, sorry but that is a big ask, Silver platter? Lol. Each of these things would require *less* effort on the part of software companies, not more. Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay. Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it. Tracking? Just don't track me. Actually requires the company and it's devs to write less code not more. Companies managed to successfully sell software for many years without tracking and spying on their users > Providing an excellent product with constant updates is not "rent-seeking" It is when the updates are things I and others do not want, or need, and did not ask for. I have an old computer running 15 year-old version of MS Office. Not once have I have ever had need for one of the newer features for Office that MS has rolled out in the last decade and a half. That might not be true for everyone, but it's true for me and many others.

joshstrange 4y ago
Do you work in tech? Like writing code? Because I honestly can't believe that someone who works in this industry could say "Each of these things would require less effort on the part of software companies, not more." with a straight face. > Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay. Monthly bill payments on a regular schedule are not hard, huge spikes are more difficult to deal with. Also then you have feast/famine cycles at your company and hold back completed features for a year or more to sell n+1 version. I'd rather show, in real-time (monthly or annually), what I think of the software (as in continuing to pay for it if I like it) as well as get new features as soon as they are ready instead of waiting for an arbitrary point in the future. > Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it. Again, do you work in tech? This is nowhere near as easy as your make it out to be. > Tracking? Just don't track me. Actually requires the company and it's devs to write less code not more. Companies managed to successfully sell software for many years without tracking and spying on their users This can encompass a wide range of things and I don't personally believe it's all bad, the good companies allow you to opt out [0]. None of things IDEA can collect bother me and you can disable it easily. There are good reasons for wanting this data along with things like crash reports. It's to improve the product, see what features people are really using, where you should direct your efforts, what types of project structures to optimize for. Does adding the tracking take more work? Yes but we (software developers) wouldn't do it if we didn't get value out of the results. As far as rent-seeking, I guess it's a matter of opinion. You can make the argument that you'd rather things just never change and limit yourself to dated tools that will eventually not be supported or have features you will need in the future. Or you can continue to learn and grow with the current landscape of tools letting you take advantage of new features that might end up being game-changing. [0] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic...
- tharne 4y ago
  > Do you work in tech? Like writing code? Yes and yes. Perhaps with the exception of showing the source code, these things we're discussing are things that used to be quite common place, i.e. you could buy and own a piece of software with one upfront payment and it didn't track you. I have very hard time believing that things that were the norm a short time ago are suddenly now impossible or prohibitively difficult. I can understand a company pursuing things like a subscription model and expansive tracking. It's potentially more profitable, just like making it very hard replace in iPhone batter is more profitable. However, it doesn't make it right and is one of reasons a lot of developers don't like to pay for modern software. Nobody likes being fleeced and developers are in the best position to call bullshit on software. In terms of getting new features. I will (and have) pay for a new version of a piece of software a useful feature appears. Most new features in subscription based software are just fluff designed to justify the ongoing monthly charge.
bbbobbb 4y ago
Are you ignoring the 'perpetual fallback license'? I would expect you'd welcome it if it is such a strong point for you. You can pay once for JetBrains IDE and never ever update (or even access older version) and keep using it after that.
- tharne 4y ago
  > Are you ignoring the 'perpetual fallback license'? I'm not ignoring it, I'm just not a JetBrains user for reasons outside of cost. I happen to like emacs and donate to different parts of the emacs ecosystem. Most of my development is scripting and writing a lot of glue code which doesn't benefit tremendously from an IDE. If I found myself working on large enterprise apps or doing a lot of java programming, I'd give JetBrains a look.

by tharne 4y ago

joshstrange 4y ago

Do you work in tech? Like writing code? Because I honestly can't believe that someone who works in this industry could say "Each of these things would require less effort on the part of software companies, not more." with a straight face. > Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay. Monthly bill payments on a regular schedule are not hard, huge spikes are more difficult to deal with. Also then you have feast/famine cycles at your company and hold back completed features for a year or more to sell n+1 version. I'd rather show, in real-time (monthly or annually), what I think of the software (as in continuing to pay for it if I like it) as well as get new features as soon as they are ready instead of waiting for an arbitrary point in the future. > Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it. Again, do you work in tech? This is nowhere near as easy as your make it out to be. > Tracking? Just don't track me. Actually requires the company and it's devs to write less code not more. Companies managed to successfully sell software for many years without tracking and spying on their users This can encompass a wide range of things and I don't personally believe it's all bad, the good companies allow you to opt out [0]. None of things IDEA can collect bother me and you can disable it easily. There are good reasons for wanting this data along with things like crash reports. It's to improve the product, see what features people are really using, where you should direct your efforts, what types of project structures to optimize for. Does adding the tracking take more work? Yes but we (software developers) wouldn't do it if we didn't get value out of the results. As far as rent-seeking, I guess it's a matter of opinion. You can make the argument that you'd rather things just never change and limit yourself to dated tools that will eventually not be supported or have features you will need in the future. Or you can continue to learn and grow with the current landscape of tools letting you take advantage of new features that might end up being game-changing. [0] https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic...

tharne 4y ago
> Do you work in tech? Like writing code? Yes and yes. Perhaps with the exception of showing the source code, these things we're discussing are things that used to be quite common place, i.e. you could buy and own a piece of software with one upfront payment and it didn't track you. I have very hard time believing that things that were the norm a short time ago are suddenly now impossible or prohibitively difficult. I can understand a company pursuing things like a subscription model and expansive tracking. It's potentially more profitable, just like making it very hard replace in iPhone batter is more profitable. However, it doesn't make it right and is one of reasons a lot of developers don't like to pay for modern software. Nobody likes being fleeced and developers are in the best position to call bullshit on software. In terms of getting new features. I will (and have) pay for a new version of a piece of software a useful feature appears. Most new features in subscription based software are just fluff designed to justify the ongoing monthly charge.

bbbobbb 4y ago

Are you ignoring the 'perpetual fallback license'? I would expect you'd welcome it if it is such a strong point for you. You can pay once for JetBrains IDE and never ever update (or even access older version) and keep using it after that.

tharne 4y ago
> Are you ignoring the 'perpetual fallback license'? I'm not ignoring it, I'm just not a JetBrains user for reasons outside of cost. I happen to like emacs and donate to different parts of the emacs ecosystem. Most of my development is scripting and writing a lot of glue code which doesn't benefit tremendously from an IDE. If I found myself working on large enterprise apps or doing a lot of java programming, I'd give JetBrains a look.