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a pre-nup solves issues by deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. A 'general pre-nup' i

a pre-nup solves issues by deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. A 'general pre-nup' is a contradiction, practically. The point is to have extreme customization, at least as suggested by GP comment. That's why the solution suggested to cumbersome divorce law would be to enforce pre nup agreements.

umvi 4y ago
So... To answer GP's question you're saying a prenup would solve this by specifically laying out what would happen to the children in different scenarios? (Father is domestic abuser, mother is alcoholic, etc?) And you'd have to enumerate the bazillion different scenarios that might happen?
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I believe that's what was intended by the comment, yes. I'm only correcting a misinterpretation. I don't have a strong opinion, but I bet a pre-nup could include many "decision trees" and mitigation strategies. I don't have a pre-nup, so I don't know.
ceejayoz 4y ago
How would you revert “we had children”? Or “my partner turns out to be a pedophile and we agreed to 50/50 custody”? Things change in ways pre-nups cannot account for. They’re fairly often litigated as a result.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I agree, I was just clarifying the parent comment.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> a pre-nup solves issues by deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. No, it doesn't because: (1) interpretation of legal documents, like interpretation of law, is not deterministic, (2) pre-nuptial agreements, and other contracts, are subject to the law, rather than superceding it, (3) marriage isn't ways about love, (Of course, if you want to substitute a purely contractual arrangement—still subject to the law—for the default treatment provided by marriage, that's always an option, anyhow, and you can still have whatever celebration you want if entering the contract, and can skip legal marriage altogether.)
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
There is no way to do what you state, though. Things change in ways folks cannot predict. For example: My grandmother married a nice, kind man. A year later, he had a stroke. He increasingly became more and more abusive, compounded by the fact that he was home all the time and needed care. My grandmother finally kicked him out when he expanded the abuse to my aunt, 3 years younger than I and a teenager at the time. She was accused of abandonment. And seriously, this isn't something they could have predicted and really is a good reason for the laws. There is no reverting back to a more optimistic time at these points. Even if they had a prenup, the only fair thing to do is to look over it and make sure it is still fair to the couple and their children, if any.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
> deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. People aren't computers. We often don't "deterministicly revert to a sane state." Your approach is far too limited. The laws should be more understandable and expedient, and the overriding well-being of the child should be taken into account. The child's wishes should be taken into account as well to inform the decision but not decide it. CASA in the US do this well in the majority of cases

umvi 4y ago

So... To answer GP's question you're saying a prenup would solve this by specifically laying out what would happen to the children in different scenarios? (Father is domestic abuser, mother is alcoholic, etc?) And you'd have to enumerate the bazillion different scenarios that might happen?

jvanderbot 4y ago
I believe that's what was intended by the comment, yes. I'm only correcting a misinterpretation. I don't have a strong opinion, but I bet a pre-nup could include many "decision trees" and mitigation strategies. I don't have a pre-nup, so I don't know.

ceejayoz 4y ago

How would you revert “we had children”? Or “my partner turns out to be a pedophile and we agreed to 50/50 custody”? Things change in ways pre-nups cannot account for. They’re fairly often litigated as a result.

jvanderbot 4y ago
I agree, I was just clarifying the parent comment.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> a pre-nup solves issues by deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. No, it doesn't because: (1) interpretation of legal documents, like interpretation of law, is not deterministic, (2) pre-nuptial agreements, and other contracts, are subject to the law, rather than superceding it, (3) marriage isn't ways about love, (Of course, if you want to substitute a purely contractual arrangement—still subject to the law—for the default treatment provided by marriage, that's always an option, anyhow, and you can still have whatever celebration you want if entering the contract, and can skip legal marriage altogether.)

Broken_Hippo 4y ago

There is no way to do what you state, though. Things change in ways folks cannot predict. For example: My grandmother married a nice, kind man. A year later, he had a stroke. He increasingly became more and more abusive, compounded by the fact that he was home all the time and needed care. My grandmother finally kicked him out when he expanded the abuse to my aunt, 3 years younger than I and a teenager at the time. She was accused of abandonment. And seriously, this isn't something they could have predicted and really is a good reason for the laws. There is no reverting back to a more optimistic time at these points. Even if they had a prenup, the only fair thing to do is to look over it and make sure it is still fair to the couple and their children, if any.

formerkrogemp 4y ago

> deterministicly reverting to a sane state as agreed to by the individuals involved when they loved each other. People aren't computers. We often don't "deterministicly revert to a sane state." Your approach is far too limited. The laws should be more understandable and expedient, and the overriding well-being of the child should be taken into account. The child's wishes should be taken into account as well to inform the decision but not decide it. CASA in the US do this well in the majority of cases