4 ms·

If you're really that concerned about using propriety software why not help build the emacs or vim ecosystem instead?

by cageface 4y ago

Karsteski 4y ago
Because some people don't necessarily want to tinker with emacs or vim for days just to get their perfect setup going
- otikik 4y ago
  > for days Ha! :wq
- sn41 4y ago
  days? Surely, you jest, dear Sir. Proud emacs user for 21 years, still have to get some overlay function going just the way I like it. One of these days, I am going to get it just right.
  - joe8756438 4y ago
    Joking aside, I think that’s one of the great things about emacs: years will go by and i won’t touch my config. Then a new project or something will inspire me to get back into it. But since switching about a decade ago, i’ve never had the itch to move to a different “editor”
- cageface 4y ago
  Convenience or freedom. Pick one.
CoastalCoder 4y ago
I don't understand that reasoning. Wouldn't an editor ecosystem based on Codium be as open-source as Emacs' and Vim's? Are you referring to some difference in their specific licenses?
- kklimonda 4y ago
  My argument, based on this thread alone, would be that Codium will always be... held back by its roots in open core project, with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable. Codium developers do not "own" their core platform (they can't really fork it without breaking plugins), and they don't have much (if any) say in the future direction of it. Given that it's not unreasonable to think that VS Code is not really that open, and a more desirable outcome would be for developers to support more open alternatives.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    Thanks for explaining that. I hadn't considered the moat effect caused by defaulting to a plugin store that allows closed-source packages. That said, it sounds like people are maintaining an equivalent store for Codium [0], and are populating it with most of the packages found in Microsoft's repo. I'd think addresses most of the concerns about that particular form of moating. > with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable The remote-editing package is definitely a sticking point for me. Is there some reason to believe that an open-source equivalent is out of reach? I'm speaking from a place of ignorance on this, but I'd expect someone out there to want to do the work of writing that OSS package. Particularly if they preferred Codium over Vim/Emacs for other reasons.
- Mochsner 4y ago
  It's almost like chromium versus firefox.
azemetre 4y ago
As someone who has been using vim for 5 years and neovim for 2 years, what sort of learning material (books, videos) would you recommend to learn about vim internals and subsequently neovim internals? I would love to contribute but I'm mostly a webdev, but I'd love to take a year or so to learn and hopefully contribute throughout the rest of my life. It's just so hard to start or learn. The material doesn't even have to be directly related to vim, I'd like to learn more about how and why text editors work and some of the common concerns when building one.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Depends what you want to do. The editor itself is in C; I don't think there's any "learning materials" available for the (Neo)Vim internals specifically, so you just gotta learn C. Overall, it's not that hard IMO: I'm not a very experienced C programmer, and I managed to get some patches into Vim. Neovim also uses Lua in various parts for its internals, but I'm not very familiar with Neovim. If you want to work on things like language support (syntax files, some completions) then most of that is in VimScript; "Learn VimScript the hard way" is a good place to get started.
- curun1r 4y ago
  It will require you to venture into C land, but I found the walkthrough of the code for the kilo editor [0] to be very informative. It’ll hit on a number of the basic concerns that a console-based editor needs to solve. Any vi/emacs impl will obviously be a lot more complex, but a simpler starting point is better for learning. [0] https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/ https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/
8589934591 4y ago
As another poster here, I would love to help contribute to emacs. What would I need to learn and where would I start?

If you're really that concerned about using propriety software why not help build the emacs or vim ecosystem instead?

Karsteski 4y ago

Because some people don't necessarily want to tinker with emacs or vim for days just to get their perfect setup going

otikik 4y ago
> for days Ha! :wq
sn41 4y ago
days? Surely, you jest, dear Sir. Proud emacs user for 21 years, still have to get some overlay function going just the way I like it. One of these days, I am going to get it just right.
- joe8756438 4y ago
  Joking aside, I think that’s one of the great things about emacs: years will go by and i won’t touch my config. Then a new project or something will inspire me to get back into it. But since switching about a decade ago, i’ve never had the itch to move to a different “editor”
cageface 4y ago
Convenience or freedom. Pick one.

CoastalCoder 4y ago

I don't understand that reasoning. Wouldn't an editor ecosystem based on Codium be as open-source as Emacs' and Vim's? Are you referring to some difference in their specific licenses?

kklimonda 4y ago
My argument, based on this thread alone, would be that Codium will always be... held back by its roots in open core project, with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable. Codium developers do not "own" their core platform (they can't really fork it without breaking plugins), and they don't have much (if any) say in the future direction of it. Given that it's not unreasonable to think that VS Code is not really that open, and a more desirable outcome would be for developers to support more open alternatives.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  Thanks for explaining that. I hadn't considered the moat effect caused by defaulting to a plugin store that allows closed-source packages. That said, it sounds like people are maintaining an equivalent store for Codium [0], and are populating it with most of the packages found in Microsoft's repo. I'd think addresses most of the concerns about that particular form of moating. > with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable The remote-editing package is definitely a sticking point for me. Is there some reason to believe that an open-source equivalent is out of reach? I'm speaking from a place of ignorance on this, but I'd expect someone out there to want to do the work of writing that OSS package. Particularly if they preferred Codium over Vim/Emacs for other reasons.
Mochsner 4y ago
It's almost like chromium versus firefox.

azemetre 4y ago

As someone who has been using vim for 5 years and neovim for 2 years, what sort of learning material (books, videos) would you recommend to learn about vim internals and subsequently neovim internals? I would love to contribute but I'm mostly a webdev, but I'd love to take a year or so to learn and hopefully contribute throughout the rest of my life. It's just so hard to start or learn. The material doesn't even have to be directly related to vim, I'd like to learn more about how and why text editors work and some of the common concerns when building one.

Beltalowda 4y ago
Depends what you want to do. The editor itself is in C; I don't think there's any "learning materials" available for the (Neo)Vim internals specifically, so you just gotta learn C. Overall, it's not that hard IMO: I'm not a very experienced C programmer, and I managed to get some patches into Vim. Neovim also uses Lua in various parts for its internals, but I'm not very familiar with Neovim. If you want to work on things like language support (syntax files, some completions) then most of that is in VimScript; "Learn VimScript the hard way" is a good place to get started.
curun1r 4y ago
It will require you to venture into C land, but I found the walkthrough of the code for the kilo editor [0] to be very informative. It’ll hit on a number of the basic concerns that a console-based editor needs to solve. Any vi/emacs impl will obviously be a lot more complex, but a simpler starting point is better for learning. [0] https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/ https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/

8589934591 4y ago

As another poster here, I would love to help contribute to emacs. What would I need to learn and where would I start?