3 ms·

I am an empiricist. For my own ailments, the track record has been: Dr Google & Dr. Wikipedia: 4 GPs & Specialists: 1 And the one ailment that the system di

I am an empiricist. For my own ailments, the track record has been: Dr Google & Dr. Wikipedia: 4 GPs & Specialists: 1 And the one ailment that the system did successfully treat was primarily a result of misinformation that the system perpetuated. If the system were functioning, there would be no way for an amateur to outperform them so consistently. edit: and since HN is slowposting me now: I mentioned a study in my original comment: https://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139.long https://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139.long While this comment made no claim to being a study. It is highlighting an extreme improbability. If random taco cart guy is besting the average software dev 80% of the time, that's a pretty clear sign something is wrong with the field. edit 2: and to joshuamorton Mine was by a professor of surgery at Johns Hopkins and his research assistant, subsequently published in the British Medical Journal. Yours is a blog post by a "science communicator," whatever that is supposed to be. Of course the BMJ article would be widely criticized by an industry that claims almost 20% of US GDP. They can afford to have it criticized--by professional criticizers no less. And the BMJ article is but one of many on the misrepresentations and oversellings of modern medicine. Read Ioannidis, or Mendelssohn, or Illich, or Mullins, or so many others! As an old person, who has seen a lot of people cut short by the hospitals, all of these takedowns have held true to life. I've seen heart patients MRSA-ed to death by the hospitals, who would have been just fine if they stayed home; cancer patients killed off by post-radiation pleural effusion long before the cancer would have gotten them; people losing 1/3 of their blood volume, or suffering from intestinal perforations, from "routine" colonoscopies. The primary contribution to human life expectancy in the last century was not mainstream medicine. It was public hygiene.

justinjlynn 4y ago
As you're an empiricist, you also know that a study with an n of 1 is not a study; it is a case report and should be interpreted as such. You, by yourself, are not generalisable.
joshuamorton 4y ago
Someone who was interested in uncovering the truth, you'd look beyond the headline (https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/medical-error-not-third-leading-cause-death https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/m...), and realize that that "study" isn't a study, its as far as I can tell not actually peer reviewed at all. It's widely criticized for being a terrible and misleading application of statistics. It doesn't pass the smell test (it would imply that more than 1/3 of deaths in hospitals are due to medical errors, which is, suffice to say, silly), but is highly enthralling, as it allows one to believe they're better than the experts. Which isn't to say medical personnel are perfect or don't make mistakes, but it is to say that if you believe that study, you should really reevaluate both how you analyze medical studies, because you're doing a bad job of it, and reevaluate your worldview, and see if you're aiming to be different solely to be different.
- georgia_peach 4y ago
  Mine was by a professor of surgery at Johns Hopkins and his research assistant, subsequently published in the British Medical Journal. Yours is a blog post by a "science communicator," whatever that is supposed to be. Of course the BMJ article would be widely criticized by an industry that claims almost 20% of US GDP. They can afford to have it criticized--by professional criticizers no less. And the BMJ article is but one of many on the misrepresentations and oversellings of modern medicine. Read Ioannidis, or Mendelssohn, or Illich, or Mullins, or so many others! As an old person, who has seen a lot of people cut short by the hospitals, all of these takedowns have held true to life. I've seen heart patients MRSA-ed to death by the hospitals, who would have been just fine if they stayed home; cancer patients killed off by post-radiation pleural effusion long before the cancer would have gotten them; people losing 1/3 of their blood volume, or suffering from intestinal perforations, from "routine" colonoscopies. The primary contribution to human life expectancy in the last century was not mainstream medicine. It was public hygiene. edit: And if you, as a literate and numerate person, ever get sick, trust but verify. Listen to the doctor, but also do your own research. I can guaran-damn-tee that you will obtain vastly superior results. It's not that all doctors are scoundrels looking to kill you & take your wallet. It's that they are afflicted by the same tunnel-vision, group-think, & subconscious self-interest as any other group of professionals. When the only tool you have is a hammer...
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    Ah yes the "any criticism of what I'm saying is a part of the conspiracy". When you have created an unfalsifiable position, you lose all credibility as you've ventured totally into conspiracy, not science or reason or empiricism or rationality or whatever. > Listen to the doctor, but also do your own research. I can guaran-damn-tee that you will obtain vastly superior results. Of course, and I said as much! But your fearmongering and aspersions on the medical community are both wrong and harmful. And doubling down on them isn't done out of evidence, it's because you need to feeling superior to the experts. That's stupid. The experts are usually right. Not always, but "usually*, and you're citing complete nonsense along with occasional mistakes by experts to imply that they're usually wrong. That's bad and dumb and wrong.
ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
> I am an empiricist. For my own ailments, the track record has been: > Dr Google & Dr. Wikipedia: 4 > GPs & Specialists: 1 cool! mine have been internet-1, professionals-5, which cancels out your own sample data. consequently, you've got no more complaints about this, being an empiricist who follows the data and everything, right?

justinjlynn 4y ago

As you're an empiricist, you also know that a study with an n of 1 is not a study; it is a case report and should be interpreted as such. You, by yourself, are not generalisable.

joshuamorton 4y ago

Someone who was interested in uncovering the truth, you'd look beyond the headline (https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/medical-error-not-third-leading-cause-death https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/m...), and realize that that "study" isn't a study, its as far as I can tell not actually peer reviewed at all. It's widely criticized for being a terrible and misleading application of statistics. It doesn't pass the smell test (it would imply that more than 1/3 of deaths in hospitals are due to medical errors, which is, suffice to say, silly), but is highly enthralling, as it allows one to believe they're better than the experts. Which isn't to say medical personnel are perfect or don't make mistakes, but it is to say that if you believe that study, you should really reevaluate both how you analyze medical studies, because you're doing a bad job of it, and reevaluate your worldview, and see if you're aiming to be different solely to be different.

georgia_peach 4y ago
Mine was by a professor of surgery at Johns Hopkins and his research assistant, subsequently published in the British Medical Journal. Yours is a blog post by a "science communicator," whatever that is supposed to be. Of course the BMJ article would be widely criticized by an industry that claims almost 20% of US GDP. They can afford to have it criticized--by professional criticizers no less. And the BMJ article is but one of many on the misrepresentations and oversellings of modern medicine. Read Ioannidis, or Mendelssohn, or Illich, or Mullins, or so many others! As an old person, who has seen a lot of people cut short by the hospitals, all of these takedowns have held true to life. I've seen heart patients MRSA-ed to death by the hospitals, who would have been just fine if they stayed home; cancer patients killed off by post-radiation pleural effusion long before the cancer would have gotten them; people losing 1/3 of their blood volume, or suffering from intestinal perforations, from "routine" colonoscopies. The primary contribution to human life expectancy in the last century was not mainstream medicine. It was public hygiene. edit: And if you, as a literate and numerate person, ever get sick, trust but verify. Listen to the doctor, but also do your own research. I can guaran-damn-tee that you will obtain vastly superior results. It's not that all doctors are scoundrels looking to kill you & take your wallet. It's that they are afflicted by the same tunnel-vision, group-think, & subconscious self-interest as any other group of professionals. When the only tool you have is a hammer...
- joshuamorton 4y ago
  Ah yes the "any criticism of what I'm saying is a part of the conspiracy". When you have created an unfalsifiable position, you lose all credibility as you've ventured totally into conspiracy, not science or reason or empiricism or rationality or whatever. > Listen to the doctor, but also do your own research. I can guaran-damn-tee that you will obtain vastly superior results. Of course, and I said as much! But your fearmongering and aspersions on the medical community are both wrong and harmful. And doubling down on them isn't done out of evidence, it's because you need to feeling superior to the experts. That's stupid. The experts are usually right. Not always, but "usually*, and you're citing complete nonsense along with occasional mistakes by experts to imply that they're usually wrong. That's bad and dumb and wrong.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago

> I am an empiricist. For my own ailments, the track record has been: > Dr Google & Dr. Wikipedia: 4 > GPs & Specialists: 1 cool! mine have been internet-1, professionals-5, which cancels out your own sample data. consequently, you've got no more complaints about this, being an empiricist who follows the data and everything, right?