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> Catholics were responsible for several huge discoveries in science and science is absolutely in line with the religion This comes off as hugely apologetic. I

> Catholics were responsible for several huge discoveries in science and science is absolutely in line with the religion This comes off as hugely apologetic. I’m not sure whether Copernicus would agree with the sentiment.

HuwFulcher 4y ago
Copernicus’ theory of heliocentricity was taught in several Catholic universities until growing Protestant opposition made them stop. The worst the Catholic Church could be accused of is submitting to popular opinion, not being anti-intellectual.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  That is not true: Catholic opposition made them stop. Catholics were also the first and most vocal to criticize heliocentricism of its heretical nature.
  - HuwFulcher 4y ago
    Some Catholic theologians criticised but the church did not denounce the theory for some time
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      It is notable that the first critic was the Magister of the Holy Palace, the church’s chief censor.
      - HuwFulcher 4y ago
        But wasn’t allowed to call it heresy until 1615, a while after Copernicus died. This isn’t an apologetic that the Catholic Church did the right thing, I’m not even Catholic. I’m trying to highlight that historically Christianity hasn’t been as anti-intellectual as many have been led to believe
        eurasiantiger 4y ago
        > historically Christianity hasn’t been as anti-intellectual as many have been led to believe That is absolutely not true. The 17th century was marked by the transition to the Age of Enlightenment, which carried an anti-anti-intellectual sentiment and thus found itself at odds with Christianity.
        HuwFulcher 4y ago
        What you've just said doesn't have any tension with what I've said. For almost 17 centuries Christianity was not at odds with intellectualism. The Reformation introduced the clash.
ekianjo 4y ago
> I’m not sure whether Copernicus would agree with the sentiment. This shows your ignorance of History more than anything else.
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  Hmm. That is what I was taught, living in a Protestant country. And it would seem I was taught just fine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Tolosani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Tolosani
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > It is worth noting, as Stanford University does, that the Catholic Church had no official stance on Copernican teachings. Pope Clement VII, who died about a decade before Copernicus, was said to have been receptive about the astronomer’s theories. While there was no recorded response from Pope Paul III, one of his advisors intended to condemn the book before dying. > Phil Lawler, editor of Catholic World News, also says Copernicus was in good standing with the Church when he died. He notes that while heliocentric theory was controversial during Copernicus’ lifetime his work did not cause him any conflict with the Catholic Church. https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2013/0219/Copernicus-and-the-Church-What-the-history-books-don-t-say https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2013/0219/Copernicus-an... The Catholic Church did not take action to ban Copernicus's book until long after he was dead (in 1616, more than 60 years after his death). The usual "Copernicus was fighting against the Church" narrative has no evidence at all.
    - eurasiantiger 4y ago
      Alright, so are you trying to say it wasn’t Copernicus who got roasted for Copernicus’ writings, but Galileo?

HuwFulcher 4y ago

Copernicus’ theory of heliocentricity was taught in several Catholic universities until growing Protestant opposition made them stop. The worst the Catholic Church could be accused of is submitting to popular opinion, not being anti-intellectual.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
That is not true: Catholic opposition made them stop. Catholics were also the first and most vocal to criticize heliocentricism of its heretical nature.
- HuwFulcher 4y ago
  Some Catholic theologians criticised but the church did not denounce the theory for some time
  - eurasiantiger 4y ago
    It is notable that the first critic was the Magister of the Holy Palace, the church’s chief censor.
    - HuwFulcher 4y ago
      But wasn’t allowed to call it heresy until 1615, a while after Copernicus died. This isn’t an apologetic that the Catholic Church did the right thing, I’m not even Catholic. I’m trying to highlight that historically Christianity hasn’t been as anti-intellectual as many have been led to believe
      - eurasiantiger 4y ago
        > historically Christianity hasn’t been as anti-intellectual as many have been led to believe That is absolutely not true. The 17th century was marked by the transition to the Age of Enlightenment, which carried an anti-anti-intellectual sentiment and thus found itself at odds with Christianity.
        HuwFulcher 4y ago
        What you've just said doesn't have any tension with what I've said. For almost 17 centuries Christianity was not at odds with intellectualism. The Reformation introduced the clash.

ekianjo 4y ago

> I’m not sure whether Copernicus would agree with the sentiment. This shows your ignorance of History more than anything else.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
Hmm. That is what I was taught, living in a Protestant country. And it would seem I was taught just fine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Tolosani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Tolosani
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > It is worth noting, as Stanford University does, that the Catholic Church had no official stance on Copernican teachings. Pope Clement VII, who died about a decade before Copernicus, was said to have been receptive about the astronomer’s theories. While there was no recorded response from Pope Paul III, one of his advisors intended to condemn the book before dying. > Phil Lawler, editor of Catholic World News, also says Copernicus was in good standing with the Church when he died. He notes that while heliocentric theory was controversial during Copernicus’ lifetime his work did not cause him any conflict with the Catholic Church. https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2013/0219/Copernicus-and-the-Church-What-the-history-books-don-t-say https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2013/0219/Copernicus-an... The Catholic Church did not take action to ban Copernicus's book until long after he was dead (in 1616, more than 60 years after his death). The usual "Copernicus was fighting against the Church" narrative has no evidence at all.
  - eurasiantiger 4y ago
    Alright, so are you trying to say it wasn’t Copernicus who got roasted for Copernicus’ writings, but Galileo?