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Your equation of Santa Claus with God reveals your prejudice and stereotyping of religious people. As another commenter has said, many great scientific discove

Your equation of Santa Claus with God reveals your prejudice and stereotyping of religious people. As another commenter has said, many great scientific discoveries over history have been made by Christians. It would be wrong of me to deny that there is an anti-intellectual strain in Christianity but it is not the dominant trend that American media would like to espouse. Whether you think Christianity is sensible or not, if someone has made it to Google then they must possess at least some level of intelligence. To change your perspective on that based on previously unknown information about that person highlights a prejudice.

anonymous_sorry 4y ago
> As another commenter has said, many great scientific discoveries over history have been made by Christians. Given that Christianity was the social norm in Europe and many European colonies for centuries, this statement is nearly equivalent to saying that many great scientific discoveries were made by Europeans. It's true, but only slightly interesting.
- HuwFulcher 4y ago
  That’s a valid point, I think what should be considered though is the interest that the Catholic Church had in encouraging scientific study
  - wruza 4y ago
    Or controlling it exclusively. Because if you look at the religion as a crowd control institution, that comes pretty naturally. Why fight education if you can just patronize it.
- OrderlyTiamat 4y ago
  I respectfully disagree, given that the topic is antiscientific thinking within christianity. The fact that many contributions were made by that group is evidence regardless of the size of the group. If this is not intuitive, consider the hypothetical world where no serious scientific contributions were made by christian europeans at all: would we then be free to dismiss that fact as uninteresting as well?
  - anonymous_sorry 4y ago
    You are right of course, it does suggest at a minimum that Christianity did not at all times and in all places where it held sway entirely suppress scientific progress. And in fact I believe that some Christian societies could be rather conducive to science within certain limits. My point is that for most of recorded European history, professing Christian beliefs was the default. Straying too far from Christian ways would have required considerable intellectual effort and have been socially and economically costly. So there should be little wonder that many great European scientists were Christians. But I don't think the historical facts can be used to draw strong conclusions about scientific or anti-scientific thinking in the population of Christians living in modern secular democracies, as the context is very different.
wruza 4y ago
I see it as a group of people who somehow believe what infinity is exactly, and a group that doesn’t. As infinity is far away enough, you can find all sorts of people who believe in god(s) and are at the same time intelligent, because the infinte trap is easy to fall into at any level of intelligence by definition. To make it clear: sometimes I tend to suspect (not believe) that there are some parts of math that we can’t reach, yet or at all, and it has effects which break or create higher-level symmetries and create everything as an imminent result. Think of a monster group as a cute little example of it. That still doesn’t make me think that I’ll be salvaged into paradise if I don’t mastrubate. Also, I’m not a historian, but wasn’t Christianity the only way to access education back then? That would explain something.
tasuki 4y ago
> Your equation of Santa Claus with God reveals your prejudice and stereotyping of religious people. The person you're replying to never equated Santa Claus with any kind god. It was just a question. Would you take an adult insisting Santa Claus is real seriously? Do you think people are entitled to their beliefs, whatever they may be?
- HuwFulcher 4y ago
  They didn’t explicitly state it but it’s heavily implied based on the context. No, I wouldn’t take an adult believing in Santa Claus seriously. They’re entitled to their beliefs and if they do their job well then I have no reason to have an issue with them. The issue I take is with the equivocation they have made. Believing in Santa Claus and believing in a divine entity are two drastically different things.
  - InfamousRece 4y ago
    In what way are they different? There is no evidence any divine entities are real just like there is no evidence that Santa is real.
    - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
      There's more evidence for Santa! He brings presents and they always appear, just as we were told ;)
    - azth 4y ago
      The fact that you and I exist is sufficient evidence that the Creator exists.
      - teekert 4y ago
        And the fact that the creator exist is evidence that the creator’s creator exists, etc, etc. Or is there a stop? And then what? Your stance creates more questions than it answers while introducing extra, unnecessary parameters.
igetspam 4y ago
Hah! Because one worked/works at Google they must inherently be smart? If those walls could speak... No. There are stupid people at Google too. It's a company and the hiring bar is high but it's also very specific. You can be an idiot in most things but still be very good at one. I've know a few. At Google. There have also been hires that were "good demographics." (That's a quote from one of my senior leadership at the time I worked there.) Sometimes you can be rejected by all the interviewers and still make it. For those who don't believe in religious doctrine, it is the same as believing in fairy tails. They come with equivalent amounts of proof and stand up to the same level of scrutiny.
- azth 4y ago
  The very fact that you're implying that being smart and believing in God are somehow contradictory reeks of condescension. Not to mention that you're grouping all religious doctrine for all religions into a "fairy tale" bucket shows that you did not spend time or effort understanding at least the existing major religions on Earth.
  - Thiez 4y ago
    Don't leave us hanging like that. Which major religions do you personally consider not to be a fairy tale? Please also include, for each such religion, if you happen to believe in it, and whether it was the religion you grew up with (if applicable).

anonymous_sorry 4y ago

> As another commenter has said, many great scientific discoveries over history have been made by Christians. Given that Christianity was the social norm in Europe and many European colonies for centuries, this statement is nearly equivalent to saying that many great scientific discoveries were made by Europeans. It's true, but only slightly interesting.

HuwFulcher 4y ago
That’s a valid point, I think what should be considered though is the interest that the Catholic Church had in encouraging scientific study
- wruza 4y ago
  Or controlling it exclusively. Because if you look at the religion as a crowd control institution, that comes pretty naturally. Why fight education if you can just patronize it.
OrderlyTiamat 4y ago
I respectfully disagree, given that the topic is antiscientific thinking within christianity. The fact that many contributions were made by that group is evidence regardless of the size of the group. If this is not intuitive, consider the hypothetical world where no serious scientific contributions were made by christian europeans at all: would we then be free to dismiss that fact as uninteresting as well?
- anonymous_sorry 4y ago
  You are right of course, it does suggest at a minimum that Christianity did not at all times and in all places where it held sway entirely suppress scientific progress. And in fact I believe that some Christian societies could be rather conducive to science within certain limits. My point is that for most of recorded European history, professing Christian beliefs was the default. Straying too far from Christian ways would have required considerable intellectual effort and have been socially and economically costly. So there should be little wonder that many great European scientists were Christians. But I don't think the historical facts can be used to draw strong conclusions about scientific or anti-scientific thinking in the population of Christians living in modern secular democracies, as the context is very different.

wruza 4y ago

I see it as a group of people who somehow believe what infinity is exactly, and a group that doesn’t. As infinity is far away enough, you can find all sorts of people who believe in god(s) and are at the same time intelligent, because the infinte trap is easy to fall into at any level of intelligence by definition. To make it clear: sometimes I tend to suspect (not believe) that there are some parts of math that we can’t reach, yet or at all, and it has effects which break or create higher-level symmetries and create everything as an imminent result. Think of a monster group as a cute little example of it. That still doesn’t make me think that I’ll be salvaged into paradise if I don’t mastrubate. Also, I’m not a historian, but wasn’t Christianity the only way to access education back then? That would explain something.

tasuki 4y ago

> Your equation of Santa Claus with God reveals your prejudice and stereotyping of religious people. The person you're replying to never equated Santa Claus with any kind god. It was just a question. Would you take an adult insisting Santa Claus is real seriously? Do you think people are entitled to their beliefs, whatever they may be?

HuwFulcher 4y ago
They didn’t explicitly state it but it’s heavily implied based on the context. No, I wouldn’t take an adult believing in Santa Claus seriously. They’re entitled to their beliefs and if they do their job well then I have no reason to have an issue with them. The issue I take is with the equivocation they have made. Believing in Santa Claus and believing in a divine entity are two drastically different things.
- InfamousRece 4y ago
  In what way are they different? There is no evidence any divine entities are real just like there is no evidence that Santa is real.
  - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
    There's more evidence for Santa! He brings presents and they always appear, just as we were told ;)
  - azth 4y ago
    The fact that you and I exist is sufficient evidence that the Creator exists.
    - teekert 4y ago
      And the fact that the creator exist is evidence that the creator’s creator exists, etc, etc. Or is there a stop? And then what? Your stance creates more questions than it answers while introducing extra, unnecessary parameters.

igetspam 4y ago

Hah! Because one worked/works at Google they must inherently be smart? If those walls could speak... No. There are stupid people at Google too. It's a company and the hiring bar is high but it's also very specific. You can be an idiot in most things but still be very good at one. I've know a few. At Google. There have also been hires that were "good demographics." (That's a quote from one of my senior leadership at the time I worked there.) Sometimes you can be rejected by all the interviewers and still make it. For those who don't believe in religious doctrine, it is the same as believing in fairy tails. They come with equivalent amounts of proof and stand up to the same level of scrutiny.

azth 4y ago
The very fact that you're implying that being smart and believing in God are somehow contradictory reeks of condescension. Not to mention that you're grouping all religious doctrine for all religions into a "fairy tale" bucket shows that you did not spend time or effort understanding at least the existing major religions on Earth.
- Thiez 4y ago
  Don't leave us hanging like that. Which major religions do you personally consider not to be a fairy tale? Please also include, for each such religion, if you happen to believe in it, and whether it was the religion you grew up with (if applicable).