4 ms·

I think the phrase "true random" is confusing. The author did highlight the difference well between the two. I still wish there was a better phrase for techniqu

I think the phrase "true random" is confusing. The author did highlight the difference well between the two. I still wish there was a better phrase for techniques generating randomness that are currently better than techniques generating pseudo-randomness.

jazzyjackson 4y ago
perhaps "non-psuedo-random" ? or physically-random, as in, produced by an effect of physics and not an algorithm.
- iosystem 4y ago
  I think "non-psuedo-random" is definitely better for someone approaching the topic from a beginner mindset. It possibly hints that something non-psuedo-random can become psuedo-random depending on how advanced scientific understanding of nature becomes.
  - throwamon 4y ago
    pseudo* pseudo* pseudo*
    - jazzyjackson 4y ago
      I'm more of a descriptivist myself
      - stavros 4y ago
        And I like describing the proper spelling of words :P
kibwen 4y ago
Ideally I would love if we could stop using "random" entirely when referring to PRNGs. Call them "deterministic bit mixers" or something.
- dchftcs 4y ago
  I don't think that adds any value over pseudo-random.
- eternityforest 4y ago
  We can just call them CSPRNGs to be precise. The pseudo lets you know it's not real quantum randomness, and the rest of it lets you know it's probably good enough for all practical purposes. Actually, crypto pseudorandoness can be more appropriate for some things, because you can prove you didn't rig it.
- qiskit 4y ago
  "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin." -- Von Neumann Lots of sinners in tech and academia...
xor99 4y ago
Yes, its essentially nonsense and seems to come from some quarters of the academic community as well as a marketing/differentiation technique. In reality there are: PRNGs - pseudo /deterministic, CSPRNGs - crypto secure pseudo /deterministic, HRNGs - hardware based (this can refer to anything from roulette tables to zener diode noise), QRNGs - where the entropy source is quantum mechnical in nature.
snarfy 4y ago
Nothing is truly random. Radioactive decay for example is influenced by the Purcell effect [1]. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purcell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purcell_effect
- dav_Oz 4y ago
  Under very specific circumstances: >The radiative properties of an atom in a cavity differ fundamentally from the atom's radiative properties in free space. Spontaneous emission is inhibited if the cavity has characteristic dimensions which are small compared to the radiation wavelength, and enhanced if the cavity is resonant. The cavity causes slight shifts in the energies of the atom, analogous to radiative shifts. [0] I wouldn't classify it under radioactive decay as in "nuclear change" (here: Potassium-40 as beta minus decay and EC, respectively) as it is a well understood photon-matter-interaction phenomenona (cQED) in e.g. manipulating single photons (single atoms in cavity) deterministically [1] which can be used in turn - coincidentally - in generating true random numbers ... [2] [0]https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981PhRvL..47..233K/abstract https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981PhRvL..47..233K/abstra... [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys569 https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys569 [2]https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3610677 https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3610677

jazzyjackson 4y ago

perhaps "non-psuedo-random" ? or physically-random, as in, produced by an effect of physics and not an algorithm.

iosystem 4y ago
I think "non-psuedo-random" is definitely better for someone approaching the topic from a beginner mindset. It possibly hints that something non-psuedo-random can become psuedo-random depending on how advanced scientific understanding of nature becomes.
- throwamon 4y ago
  pseudo* pseudo* pseudo*
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    I'm more of a descriptivist myself
    - stavros 4y ago
      And I like describing the proper spelling of words :P

kibwen 4y ago

Ideally I would love if we could stop using "random" entirely when referring to PRNGs. Call them "deterministic bit mixers" or something.

dchftcs 4y ago
I don't think that adds any value over pseudo-random.
eternityforest 4y ago
We can just call them CSPRNGs to be precise. The pseudo lets you know it's not real quantum randomness, and the rest of it lets you know it's probably good enough for all practical purposes. Actually, crypto pseudorandoness can be more appropriate for some things, because you can prove you didn't rig it.
qiskit 4y ago
"Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin." -- Von Neumann Lots of sinners in tech and academia...

xor99 4y ago

Yes, its essentially nonsense and seems to come from some quarters of the academic community as well as a marketing/differentiation technique. In reality there are: PRNGs - pseudo /deterministic, CSPRNGs - crypto secure pseudo /deterministic, HRNGs - hardware based (this can refer to anything from roulette tables to zener diode noise), QRNGs - where the entropy source is quantum mechnical in nature.

snarfy 4y ago

Nothing is truly random. Radioactive decay for example is influenced by the Purcell effect [1]. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purcell_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purcell_effect

dav_Oz 4y ago
Under very specific circumstances: >The radiative properties of an atom in a cavity differ fundamentally from the atom's radiative properties in free space. Spontaneous emission is inhibited if the cavity has characteristic dimensions which are small compared to the radiation wavelength, and enhanced if the cavity is resonant. The cavity causes slight shifts in the energies of the atom, analogous to radiative shifts. [0] I wouldn't classify it under radioactive decay as in "nuclear change" (here: Potassium-40 as beta minus decay and EC, respectively) as it is a well understood photon-matter-interaction phenomenona (cQED) in e.g. manipulating single photons (single atoms in cavity) deterministically [1] which can be used in turn - coincidentally - in generating true random numbers ... [2] [0]https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981PhRvL..47..233K/abstract https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981PhRvL..47..233K/abstra... [1]https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys569 https://www.nature.com/articles/nphys569 [2]https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3610677 https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3610677