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Any self made millionaires here? Was it worth it?
Somebody who really came from a poor or working-class background, who had poor parents. Was all of the work required to build a business (or brand, etc.) worth it, looking back? Was there some other path you could have taken that would have been more fun or fulfilling in some way, but might not have brought the wealth?
Would love to hear from experienced people who have been through it. Why is the entrepreneurial route worth it if you don't come from money, or why isn't it?
- soared 4y agoYou don’t have to do the entrepreneurial route to become a millionaire. Any tech job will make you a millionaire in your lifetime. If you make 100k/yr and save 30% a year from age 21 to 67 you’ll have $2.2MM in savings.
- helge9210 4y ago> and save [...] a year from age 21 to 67 you’ll have [...] in savings Assumption of savings vehicle being available for 46 years sometimes doesn't hold.
- Rastonbury 4y agoYou mean having a bank account?
- helge9210 4y agoI mean having a concept of private property.
- Rastonbury 4y agoNot sure if there's much overlap between someone who earn 100k/year and someone who doesn't have concept of private property.
- helge9210 4y agoFirst third of my life I was living in a state that officially refused to recognize private property (USSR). Modern Russia, for example, while officially recognizing private property rights, does not uphold them.
- lupire 4y ago(assuming income growth matches inflation, and 2% real return on investments) https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/retirement-plan-calculator/ https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/retirement-plan-calculat...
- saberience 4y agoHell of a lot of "ifs" and assertions here. IF you can get a 100k job at age 21 and IF you can save 30% per year (which us a lot) and IF nothing goes wrong with your health, company failing, being laid off, etc etc. It's highly, highly unrealistic to assume 21 year olds earning 100K AND saving 30% of it, have you met many 21 year olds?
- bordercases 4y agoI don't get it – the ask is "how to do X?". The answering being, "if you are or you do Q, then you will get X" is perfectly well-formed. The conditions you mention are hazardous but also true for having a career or being materially free in general, rather than just for how to become a millionaire.
- annyeonghada 4y agoAnd IF you work in the US. In certain European country, like mine, teach workers[1] earn less than the average salary while working more hours than the average population. No golden handcuffs or millionaires here. [1]In general every non-medical degree will get you the same pay as a specialized skilled worker but skilled jobs and manifacturing are even less and often with horrible conditions so everyone goes to the degree route and hope to find somwthing or emigrate. I wish I had done Medicine as my mother said.
- nexus2045 4y agoNo it’s not unrealistic. Any decently bright and hard working college student studying computer science can get that 100k+ even as an intern. So technically this saving can start before age of 21. By age 25 they can already make 300k+. But yes, this is assuming you are in North America.
- eddyschai 4y agoThey can, but most don't.
- soared 4y agoIt’s an oversimplification of my income for clarity. In this scenario you make 100k and never more or less (no raises, no other income sources). If you live outside of California or NYC saving 30% is very doable if you’re fiscally responsible, which if your goal is to be a millionaire is a good prerequisite. I made 36k out of college but now make 135k. I saved 0% at the start and save over 30% now. Assuming I’ll keep getting raises I’ll be a millionaire. My goal was to show OP that you don’t need to start a business to become a millionaire, working in tech for a long career with financial literacy will also get you there.
- rootsudo 4y agoThe problem is, - is the time/life/worth balance worth it? I would agree, yes, stick in tech 40 years, you'd be a millionaire, even 5-10, but at that point, I feel you should exit - and live your life and do your "thing." It's one thing to try and succeed, another to try and fail, and ironically, when most people have assets/liquidity, they're in the part of the life that failing and restarting is hard, if not impractical all together. I've seen this many a time, growing up in Florida - and it does make the route of being a "office drone" for 40 years, appeasing, or even getting a 100k+ salary via a public sector job, and a pension to retire on and the ease/slowness of the work. But, then again, this can work for almost "anyone" - meaning the term, millionaire, doesn't mean much what it used too - nor the purchasing power. It comes down really to what you want in life, and even me, in my early 30's makes me wonder what amount of money/security is necessary to have a life I want. Millionaire because you worked 40 years in a company, and took it safe. Millionaire cause you worked in a company, pivioted, and created your own thing and succeeded. While not related to money, I feel a just comparision is this Star Trek scene, where, there is a bit of missing context if you don't know the series but the tone/message should get across: the easier path doesn't always mean the one that's most rewarding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHoPLhpw2g4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHoPLhpw2g4 The whole episode is exciting, and considered one of the best - Star Trek, The Next Generation - Tapestry.
- prirun 4y ago> Was there some other path you could have taken that would have been more fun or fulfilling in some way, but might not have brought the wealth? It's impossible for anyone to know whether taking another path would have been better or worse. We only know the path we've taken.
- sema4hacker 4y agoMy father grew up on a Minnesota farm, homesteaded by European immigrants. He got drafted into the army and married my German mom in Nuremberg after WWII. They provided for me enough to get educated, learn to program, and become a college dropout, software entrepreneur, and multimillionaire. To answer your questions: yes, the work was worth it, because it led to having no financial concerns, which is very relaxing, and financial success let me help and support family members and let my wife support charities. I doubt there would have been a "more fun" path for me because I enjoyed programming so much.
- azmodeus 4y agoCurrent Nuremberg resident here nice to see Nuremberg on HN :) Could you share a bit more about your businesses? Would love to learn more
- cm2012 4y agoMy parents were not poor but middle class (80k combined income in nyc). I didn't know anybody who worked in business as a kid, especially corporate business. My early attempts at entrepreneurship at age 17-20 were fun but honestly I didn't have the context needed to succeed. It was working my way up the career ladder and working at VC backed companies that gave me the knowledge to be succesful. I now own a company worth high 7 figures, and building that was totally worth it, but it was necessary to do real jobs to learn.
- Aleksdev 4y agoCan you tell me about some of the challenges you faced in the initial stage of setting up your company? Have you ever thought about quitting?
- Utkarsh_Mood 4y agoadvice you'd give looking back on things you'd wished you'd have known while you were 17?
- theoa 4y agoyup Then again, all I did was buy a thousand shares of Microsoft the day they went public.
- hiyer 4y agoNice. Should be worth around 70 million now after all the splits if you never sold any of the shares. And you would also be making over half a mil every year just on dividends.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gcheong 4y agoWas it a case of betting everything on black so-to-speak? Otherwise having an extra 25+k to put in MSFT back in 1986 probably meant you weren't too bad off to begin with. Still, excellent move regardless!
- blitzar 4y ago
- tomcam 4y agoTook a highly focused approach, working a lot at night, but always chose to have a fulfilling family life b/c so many successful people I studied went through multiple wives. I chose to be less rich and stay married. Bought houses for lots of family members. Worked at home so lots of time with kids. Was able to live in safe neighborhoods and afford ongoing large medical expenses for several family members. Was able to experiment with other businesses, failing plenty. Fun though. In sum: Totally worth it, but I always placed a higher priority on jobs I liked. Wife actually doesn’t want to be richer, because she grew up an unwilling celebrity. Any more rich than we are, and she would perish under the spotlight.
- edmcnulty101 4y agoUnwilling celebrity? Shes famous?
- Spooky23 4y agoNot the OP, but celebrity takes many forms. Being the mayors daughter or whatever brings unwanted attention. One of my neighbors was an NFL player. He got hurt, retired and has a normal gig, just with more swag than most people. It was tough for his kids to just enjoy little league or whatever.
- edmcnulty101 4y agoI'm nosy and curious.
- tomcam 4y agoProminent parents, as suggested by /u/Spooky23
- cinntaile 4y agoIn what sense did you take a highly focused approach? Did you identify area's where the chance of succeeding was high and worked your way from there?
- Rastonbury 4y agoIf you look at any decently sized local shops or services like family owned restaurants, landscaping, etc. they are probably millionaires and will likely tell you its worth it. You don't have to be a tech founder to be an entrepreneur or get millions, if you want a billion maybe. Pros are not working for the man and financial freedom.
- kwere 4y agofamily owned businesses usually are asset rich, "rarely" cashflow/cash rich (when they are they tend to increase a lot good/bad capital expenditure and lifestyle , as decisions are shared). Two different things. Culture in a co-owned business is often more rewarding /enjoyable/ flexible (not often a good choice) than being an employee or a funded entrepreneur. Passing the torch is also a big factor of personal pride. Economically is probably not often that smart as skills are not usually transferable. Better to build a career base outside and join later or biuld a trade inside (management skills also if medium enterprise). At least this is my experience as 3rd generation "small" business heir in europe.
- Jugurtha 4y agoFor more context on the reason "small" is put in quotes in the parent comment, "small business" or "small and medium-sized enterprises" definitions vary from country to country. A "Mittelstand" is defined as annual revenues up to 50 MM Euro and a maximum of 500 employees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_and_medium-sized_enterprises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_and_medium-sized_enterpr... [French for SME]: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_ou_moyenne_entreprise https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_ou_moyenne_entreprise
- yakak 4y agoTrue, though I know a few families that were ruined by this path. Things like your house can often end up becoming leverage because you are afraid to lose the lifestyle you are used to, and it's easy to take your eyes of the road when it has started to seem monotonous.
- fuzzfactor 4y agoIt can take a lot of work just being a self-made thousandaire. Significant earnings from your own technology and even your own two hands would have to start somewhere. Then maybe you can get a better idea about bumping it up 1000x or so.
- afpx 4y agoI was pretty poor. The house I lived in still had an outhouse. We had an old-fashion washboard thingy to wash clothes. And, my mom made $7k to take care of 4 kids (in the 90s). I chased the dream hard. Worked at 4 startups, worked myself to burnout. I went through 4 exits and didn’t get rich (because exits don’t favor non-executives and socially awkward). I finally got rich just by saving and investing well. I saved pretty much everything I made. It was worth it, because now I get to live the life of The Dude.
- xcubic 4y ago> I finally got rich just by saving and investing well. I saved pretty much everything I made. It was worth it, because now I get to live the life of The Dude. Care to share some details?
- afpx 4y agoWell, rich is relative, of course. But, I take in about 200k in passive income / year. My house is paid for, and while I budget for 120k / year in expenses, it's actually more like 60k. So, the rest just compounds. (Once you have everything, it's hard to find things to spend money on.) At my first job, I made 30k / year. And, that sort of set my standard of living. I bought my first house in early 2000s for $250k which increased my cost of living. But, I made it back in increased equity. But, everything else went into investments. I maxed out my 401k with index funds. Non-401k investments went into a mix of technology stocks. As for The Dude lifestyle. Well, I'm mid-40s. I smoke a lot of weed. Hang out with my friends. We make bad music, art, and comedy together. I bike a lot. I chill under the sunset. I still like to make software, and I'm still relatively good at it, but I have no interest in interviewing nor competing with today's hungry all-stars. So, I just abide.
- throwaway_1928 4y ago> I have no interest in interviewing nor competing with today's hungry all-stars. So, I just abide. The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners.
- Jemm 4y agoHere in Southern Ontario, just being a millionaire means you still cannot afford to buy even a cheap shack. Yet for the most part minimum wage and entry level jobs have not had an increase in pay for almost thirty years. The result is that we have lost our middle class.
- dukeofdoom 4y agoIt's hard for them to afford a weekend camping. Ontario is very expensive.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lazyant 4y agoCanada is very expensive but minimum wage has literally doubled in the last 15 years from $7 to $15.
- armatav 4y agoAnd inflation? It’s a pay decrease.
- naniwaduni 4y agoNet inflation in the past 15 years has been more like 40% than 114%.
- Spooky23 4y agoMy path was easier - get a good job and put 20% of salary into savings for 20 years. It meant driving cars into the ground and being frugal during tight times, but worth it.
- orzig 4y agoNot myself, but check out Reddit’s FatFIRE subreddit for many anecdotes and discussions. I was actually uninspired by the stories I saw of lifestyles of those who “made it”, but YMMV and they generally seem to feel it was worth it.
- esarbe 4y agoThere are no self-made millionaires. I'm from a poor family and got pretty wealthy. Yet I'm under no illusion that this was "self-made". No one of us is "self-made". We all depend on a society around us that gives us a language, concepts, knowledge and stability to accumulate wealth. We depend on foundations that have been built by others, on resources extracted by others, on work done by others. "Self-made" is just a comfortable blanket to pretend that it was our hard work alone that made us rich. In reality it's only very, very much luck that allows to to prosper while others are destitute. The "self-made millionaire" is a capitalistic myth that glorifies exploitation of others. Don't fall for it.
- credit_guy 4y agoThat's some real deep philosophical insight there ... It does not matter how much you work, in the end you don't deserve the fruits of your labor, because of course, there is no such thing as fruits of you labor. It's the fruits of the society around us.
- esarbe 4y ago> It's the fruits of the society around us. That's a given. Still, Society needs a way to incentivize people. Some way of encouraging people to be entrepreneurial, curious, industrious and active, to reach beyond what is immediately possible, work on their strengths and on supporting each other to grow in their own.
- jokethrowaway 4y agoIt's a poor lens through which view the world. In the same way there are no criminals or good or bad people. Sure, I don't believe in free will either, but from a practical point of view, you should probably give some credit to millionaires who made it without getting money from anyone. And you should give even more credit to millionaires who made it starting with a poor family. Similarly I won't trust criminals as much as non criminals, even if I'm sure they could have been different if their lives had different circumstances. Of course we're lucky to live in the richest society ever created in history which gives us opportunities our ancestors didn't have. You can thank capitalism for that. I feel good about my economic success (almost 1M with just contracting and a failed startup behind). Sure, I'm thankful that my family could afford a computer when I was a kid but nobody really encouraged me to follow this route or gave me any money. My teenage years were all fighting with my parents to stay more on the computer and work while they wanted me to study. And everyone kept telling me there was no money in software development.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoBack then getting off the farm meant college. All my siblings took that route. We have an Intel VP, an IT professional, a state Environmental Impact statement researcher, a bonemarrow transplant nurse, a serial entrepreneur in Silicon Valley and fortune-500 industrial VP (several companies) Not the same landscape any more; different routes are available now.
- madengr 4y ago
- KerrAvon 4y agoBy “millionaire,” do you actually mean “independently wealthy”? Single-digit millionaire is a pretty low bar in some places, at least on paper.
- samspenc 4y ago+1 I think most of the folks who are on HN, e.g. software engineers, should be able to get to a million in net worth through savings over 10-20 years. At least in the US given USD salaries and possibly Canada as well.
- muzani 4y agoSingle digit millionaire is like straight A student. It's not particularly rare, but it involves a lot of sacrifice and perseverance. I do think the question stands.
- giantg2 4y agoThe sad part is that people pretty much need to save $1M+ to retire at 65 these days, yet many vastly underfund their accounts.
- ipaddr 4y agoA lot of people purchased a house.. does that count?
- nokya 4y agoYes.
- anamax 4y agoMy father was arguably a self-made millionaire, even though he wouldn't have described himself that way. (He wasn't hugely wealthy, but he did live a couple of decades with FU money.) He was literally born in a log cabin, with an outhouse, and rode horses to school. He was a migrant farm worker as a kid and young adult. Yes, it was worth it. He got to spend money on his kids and grandkids. He got to do pretty much what he wanted to do with his time. He had a much better life than his parents. The rest of your questions make assumptions that simply aren't relevant. You have a very limited view of how one can build wealth.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- more_corn 4y agoI grew up poor, mom claimed $19k annual income the year before my first year of college. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it on my FAFSA. I literally couldn’t figure out a budget that could have worked (I tried) and yet we always had food, we never once lacked for a necessity, never once discussed not being able to pay utilities. She just handled it. Of course it was worth it. It would have been worth it even if I hadn’t succeeded. Work hard, do good work, plan well, build wealth, cultivate relationships. Eliminate unnecessary expenses and waste. All these things are worth doing in themselves. Also I wasn’t self made. I had white privilege (I distinctly recall two times I was cut slack for youthful hi-jinx where a black person would have gone to jail). I had people who mentored me and supported me. I had people who cut me slack when I needed it and believed in me. If anything my success is due to the strength of my family and friends. So remember to cultivate long-term relationships. Above all demonstrate trustworthiness. The entrepreneurial route is the best way to build and hold wealth. Because it allows you to become part of the owner class. It’s unfair but if you’re going to live in an unfair system you owe it to yourself to join the class most favored. Some people choose not to pursue wealth. I know people who consciously chose to teach or otherwise nurture children, knowing they forego wealth by doing so. Some people choose to become artists, or another creative pursuits. Some people choose journalism knowing there’s not a lot of money in it. Keep that in mind if you join the owners class. You’re not special, you’re not better. They simply choose not to do what you did. Many times as a deliberate rejection.
- coward123 4y agoIn this thread there are a lot of people overlooking that even someone who is financially disciplined can lose it all very quickly. Their own health or the health of someone close to them can drain those dollars quickly. A marriage goes sideways and you'll be lucky if the lawyers don't take it all. A few bad stock bets... point is, sure compound interest might make you a "millionaire" but it's a long way from those first millions to actual financial security, and LUCK plays a huge role.
- runawaytrain 4y agoI grew up poor, in the projects of NY. My father died when I was five and I was raised by my mother alone. I think that constitutes as "poor". I'll give a 10,000 foot view of my younger years. I learned how to program on my own in the 90s because my school had no books or anything. I got my first computer when I was in college. I didn't study computer science or anything technical. I kept programming/hacking after school/work. I did eventually get a programming job and I kept hacking after working. I eventually got a brilliant idea to charge money for something I made (after having made hundreds of open source projects). People started paying for my tool. I was making $500,000+ USD per-year from my tool alone. I quit my "full time" job and kept doing what I always did, hacking on stuff. Do I regret anything? No. Would I do anything different? Probably not. I guess the only advice I have is "charge for it".
- b20000 4y agowhat was the tool and business model?
- K3k1 4y agoI made mine after selling my startup a few years ago. The only thing that changed was my mental state. From constantly worrying about money to only worrying about returning to my previous state. I had to make a few sacrifices to get where I am now, though. I compromised my mental health quite a bit but I'm slowly returning back to my baseline now. That specific sacrifice became obvious only in hindsight since at that time I wasn't aware how things were really affecting me. I have some things I wish I had done differently, but they don't chase so much as to call them regrets.
- MrMan 4y agoNothing is ever worth it at the end, but it's better than being as poor as I was
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]