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I think Patrick is missing a niche segment of Hackers who have been making a lot of money in last few years.They are the independent Mobile App Developer(iOS/An

I think Patrick is missing a niche segment of Hackers who have been making a lot of money in last few years.They are the independent Mobile App Developer(iOS/Android) If you choose this path then you dont even have to start a company,all you need to do is make awesome apps.It might be a little hard to start but in a year you should be making good enough money to go independent and then sky is the limit.It is not only possible but probable that you will write better applications (using services like Parse) than entire megacorps.

rodh257 15y ago
I'd be interested to see the stats on people making apps on HN vs people actually making a lot of money on them
- freemarketteddy 15y ago
  Search around on HN.You will find a lot threads with Single Founder success stories in recent times.Probably more than Startup Success stories.Two names that come to mind are Instapaper and BigNoggins productions.
  - rodh257 15y ago
    I think that a few posts on HN is hardly enough evidence to say that if you make apps you'll probably be making enough money to support yourself within a year of starting.
LVB 15y ago
I'll just say that based only on reading his post, I'm 100% sure that Patrick wouldn't agree with your career advice.
- freemarketteddy 15y ago
  Yes I think so too.I think this option was simply not available to Patrick when he started figuring his way out of his corporate soul-crushing job.The path that he took was probably the best under those circumstances. But now (thanks to services like Parse,Twilio,Github and so many others) I think a good hacker has a decent chance of making it to financial independence completely on his own.
seancron 15y ago
From the article: "Most software is not sold in boxes, available on the Internet, or downloaded from the App Store." all you need to do is make awesome apps. Oh, is that all? </sarcasm> The fact is that it's hard to make awesome apps or awesome anything that also makes people enough money to go entirely independent. Especially if you have a family that you need to support. And even if you do decide to be an independent mobile app developer, parts of this article still apply to you. Your job isn't to make apps. For example: "Engineers are hired to create business value, not to program things." Your job is to save people time/money, entertain them, or make their lives easier by making apps.
- freemarketteddy 15y ago
  Yes in fact that is all...when I say awesome I do mean applications that create real value for people.No bullshit...just good products that people will love to use. You are right.If you have a family and dont really have a million saved,it is not in your best interests to quit your job and jump into the risky world of independent app development.But you can over a period of a year or two (by building up your codebase) get to a point where you are making more money than your corporate job.It is at that point that I recommend you fully jump ship. Agreed that initially you'll have trouble understanding the market and finding applications that people really want.But once you learn to gauge the market, build awesome apps and then market them effectively to people you will lead a much better life than some 9-5 engineering manager at xyz corp filing TPS reports and sucking up to your boss for a promotion. Judging by the current growth of smartphone market even a good calculator app is bound to make you a lot of money in the long run if you can market it effectively. And finally if you know how to search effectively on github you will realize that most of the required classes are already built and open sourced by some hacker out there.And if not maybe you can build it and open source it for your fellow hackers.
chc 15y ago
I think you're vastly overestimating how easy this is. According to a number of studies I've seen, your odds of even making more than four figures a year are ridiculously low. If you're not in the top 10%, you basically won't make crap.
patio11 15y ago
Everyone knows I pay my rent by making bingo cards for elementary schoolteachers and bear no ill will for small businesses, right? If you are sufficiently skilled to create a popular iPhone app, you can sleepwalk your way into either $100k+ as a salaried engineer or $200+ an hour doing contracting work. The vast majority of app devs will not reach these numbers.
- freemarketteddy 15y ago
  With all due respect...I think that the factor we are trying to maximize is not money...It is overall life satisfaction and happiness as a hacker. Personally I would choose 80K a year building my own awesome apps ,making a name for myself,travelling the world ,meeting awesome people than making 200K at xyz corp where I spend my day exchanging bullshit emails with upper management.
  - patio11 15y ago
    I'm very, very sympathetic about those goals. :) Please do more research about the app market. Most people will not achieve $80k or anything close to it as independent app developers. I wish you every success.
    - xiaoma 15y ago
      I deal with app developers every day. I read a feed of iTunes store rankings regularly in the course of what I do. 80K is not an extremely rare level of success. In fact, even one of my old college buddies with a total MS-stack background has eclipsed it. I'm not really in a position to share details, but for A-level geeks, there is much, much more than 100-200k to be made. It's true that most people won't achieve that. Much like 90% of sales-people's income are at sub-median levels, it's closer to a power distribution than a gaussian one.
- T-hawk 15y ago
  > If you are sufficiently skilled to create a popular iPhone app How much of this skill set is programming, and how much is design and marketing and the ability to navigate Apple's approval process? (Legitimate question, not rhetorical.)

rodh257 15y ago

I'd be interested to see the stats on people making apps on HN vs people actually making a lot of money on them

freemarketteddy 15y ago
Search around on HN.You will find a lot threads with Single Founder success stories in recent times.Probably more than Startup Success stories.Two names that come to mind are Instapaper and BigNoggins productions.
- rodh257 15y ago
  I think that a few posts on HN is hardly enough evidence to say that if you make apps you'll probably be making enough money to support yourself within a year of starting.

LVB 15y ago

I'll just say that based only on reading his post, I'm 100% sure that Patrick wouldn't agree with your career advice.

freemarketteddy 15y ago
Yes I think so too.I think this option was simply not available to Patrick when he started figuring his way out of his corporate soul-crushing job.The path that he took was probably the best under those circumstances. But now (thanks to services like Parse,Twilio,Github and so many others) I think a good hacker has a decent chance of making it to financial independence completely on his own.

seancron 15y ago

From the article: "Most software is not sold in boxes, available on the Internet, or downloaded from the App Store." all you need to do is make awesome apps. Oh, is that all? </sarcasm> The fact is that it's hard to make awesome apps or awesome anything that also makes people enough money to go entirely independent. Especially if you have a family that you need to support. And even if you do decide to be an independent mobile app developer, parts of this article still apply to you. Your job isn't to make apps. For example: "Engineers are hired to create business value, not to program things." Your job is to save people time/money, entertain them, or make their lives easier by making apps.

freemarketteddy 15y ago
Yes in fact that is all...when I say awesome I do mean applications that create real value for people.No bullshit...just good products that people will love to use. You are right.If you have a family and dont really have a million saved,it is not in your best interests to quit your job and jump into the risky world of independent app development.But you can over a period of a year or two (by building up your codebase) get to a point where you are making more money than your corporate job.It is at that point that I recommend you fully jump ship. Agreed that initially you'll have trouble understanding the market and finding applications that people really want.But once you learn to gauge the market, build awesome apps and then market them effectively to people you will lead a much better life than some 9-5 engineering manager at xyz corp filing TPS reports and sucking up to your boss for a promotion. Judging by the current growth of smartphone market even a good calculator app is bound to make you a lot of money in the long run if you can market it effectively. And finally if you know how to search effectively on github you will realize that most of the required classes are already built and open sourced by some hacker out there.And if not maybe you can build it and open source it for your fellow hackers.

chc 15y ago

I think you're vastly overestimating how easy this is. According to a number of studies I've seen, your odds of even making more than four figures a year are ridiculously low. If you're not in the top 10%, you basically won't make crap.

patio11 15y ago

Everyone knows I pay my rent by making bingo cards for elementary schoolteachers and bear no ill will for small businesses, right? If you are sufficiently skilled to create a popular iPhone app, you can sleepwalk your way into either $100k+ as a salaried engineer or $200+ an hour doing contracting work. The vast majority of app devs will not reach these numbers.

freemarketteddy 15y ago
With all due respect...I think that the factor we are trying to maximize is not money...It is overall life satisfaction and happiness as a hacker. Personally I would choose 80K a year building my own awesome apps ,making a name for myself,travelling the world ,meeting awesome people than making 200K at xyz corp where I spend my day exchanging bullshit emails with upper management.
- patio11 15y ago
  I'm very, very sympathetic about those goals. :) Please do more research about the app market. Most people will not achieve $80k or anything close to it as independent app developers. I wish you every success.
  - xiaoma 15y ago
    I deal with app developers every day. I read a feed of iTunes store rankings regularly in the course of what I do. 80K is not an extremely rare level of success. In fact, even one of my old college buddies with a total MS-stack background has eclipsed it. I'm not really in a position to share details, but for A-level geeks, there is much, much more than 100-200k to be made. It's true that most people won't achieve that. Much like 90% of sales-people's income are at sub-median levels, it's closer to a power distribution than a gaussian one.
T-hawk 15y ago
> If you are sufficiently skilled to create a popular iPhone app How much of this skill set is programming, and how much is design and marketing and the ability to navigate Apple's approval process? (Legitimate question, not rhetorical.)