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isn't there a term in their ToS that says they can ban whoever they want? don't see why a software company should be fined for banning users, you should be able

isn't there a term in their ToS that says they can ban whoever they want? don't see why a software company should be fined for banning users, you should be able to ban any non paying user whenever you want

pxeboot 4y ago
I agree, but they should need to tell you why they banned you, and offer a chance to appeal.
- tempestn 4y ago
  Which they do, theoretically, but the reason is "see our terms" and the appeal is "yep, reviewed, still banned".
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > the reason is "see our terms So when you go to jail, do they tell you 'see the law'? No, they tell spesifically which law you broke. If you are willing to accept this BS, how do you know they are telling the truth, what if you didn't break their TOS and the real reason they banned you is because they dislike your political views? What if tomorrow they ban everyone who supports donald trump, or whatever.
scrollaway 4y ago
Banning people on a global, worldwide communication network that has a reach of billions of users is not "I don't see why they can't just do it without any reason" material.
- zaik 4y ago
  That's kind of what you get if everyone chooses to use walled gardens like WhatsApp or Signal. My XMPP address will keep working as long as I have control over my DNS records.
  - Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
    You're always in someone's walled garden. Didn't someone get their domain seized by Cloudflare the other day? There is no technology in the world that isn't vulnerable to this sort of thing. The only way out is legislating against companies cutting you off without reason or recourse.
    - susam 4y ago
      > You're always in someone's walled garden. Indeed! One has control on their DNS records only as long as they are allowed to have control on their DNS records. That control can be taken away as it once happened in my case when a domain name I was using was sinkholed due to a false positive. Full story here: https://susam.net/blog/sinkholed.html https://susam.net/blog/sinkholed.html Until the sinkhole incident happened, I was a firm believer of running my own email server with a domain name I have registered, so that it would not be possible for a large corporation to accidentally lock me out of my email. But now that I have seen how one's control over a domain name can be taken away suddenly and without warning, I am not so sure!
- amyjess 4y ago
  It is their private property, and they have an inherent and fundamental right to decide who they want to allow on it.
  - ClassyJacket 4y ago
    No, they do not. Facebook has worked hard to destroy competition by buying up every significant messaging service, which should never have been permitted. They are a monopoly that people are dependent on - it's not as if you can just choose not to use whatsapp. You cannot just move to another messaging app unless you get everyone on the planet to move with you. I, for example, am required to use whatsapp every day for my job. If I was banned from whatsapp, I would be unable to do my job and be immediately fired. Messaging is an essential utility now, and just like the other utilities in your house, it is not fair to cut people off from them. Whatsapp doesn't have rights, they have responsibilities, and they should not be allowed to ban people for no reason.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      Facebook did not buy Discord which is currently the best messaging service on the market. They didn't buy slack either.
    - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
      whatsapp is just a lame messaging app, there is literally thousands of them I live fine without using any FB products if your livelihood depends on a lame messaging app something is wrong with your business
      - scrollaway 4y ago
        In my world we call this victim blaming. Go out and meet some people whose families are on Whatsapp. Whose parents or grandparents know exactly how to use the one app and that's it. I boycott LinkedIn and I have enough trouble as it is because of that. And it's LinkedIn, a lame-ass feel-good social network. WhatsApp is a messaging app and has over 2 billion users, with a penetration so large in some countries (especially Europe) that it gets special treatment for ISPs, it's often the only way to contact some businesses, and has de facto replaced SMS for many. There aren't "thousands of messaging apps" with that kind of userbase. Pointless for you? Good for you. Your life is not others', though, please have empathy.

pxeboot 4y ago

I agree, but they should need to tell you why they banned you, and offer a chance to appeal.

tempestn 4y ago
Which they do, theoretically, but the reason is "see our terms" and the appeal is "yep, reviewed, still banned".
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > the reason is "see our terms So when you go to jail, do they tell you 'see the law'? No, they tell spesifically which law you broke. If you are willing to accept this BS, how do you know they are telling the truth, what if you didn't break their TOS and the real reason they banned you is because they dislike your political views? What if tomorrow they ban everyone who supports donald trump, or whatever.

scrollaway 4y ago

Banning people on a global, worldwide communication network that has a reach of billions of users is not "I don't see why they can't just do it without any reason" material.

zaik 4y ago
That's kind of what you get if everyone chooses to use walled gardens like WhatsApp or Signal. My XMPP address will keep working as long as I have control over my DNS records.
- Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
  You're always in someone's walled garden. Didn't someone get their domain seized by Cloudflare the other day? There is no technology in the world that isn't vulnerable to this sort of thing. The only way out is legislating against companies cutting you off without reason or recourse.
  - susam 4y ago
    > You're always in someone's walled garden. Indeed! One has control on their DNS records only as long as they are allowed to have control on their DNS records. That control can be taken away as it once happened in my case when a domain name I was using was sinkholed due to a false positive. Full story here: https://susam.net/blog/sinkholed.html https://susam.net/blog/sinkholed.html Until the sinkhole incident happened, I was a firm believer of running my own email server with a domain name I have registered, so that it would not be possible for a large corporation to accidentally lock me out of my email. But now that I have seen how one's control over a domain name can be taken away suddenly and without warning, I am not so sure!
amyjess 4y ago
It is their private property, and they have an inherent and fundamental right to decide who they want to allow on it.
- ClassyJacket 4y ago
  No, they do not. Facebook has worked hard to destroy competition by buying up every significant messaging service, which should never have been permitted. They are a monopoly that people are dependent on - it's not as if you can just choose not to use whatsapp. You cannot just move to another messaging app unless you get everyone on the planet to move with you. I, for example, am required to use whatsapp every day for my job. If I was banned from whatsapp, I would be unable to do my job and be immediately fired. Messaging is an essential utility now, and just like the other utilities in your house, it is not fair to cut people off from them. Whatsapp doesn't have rights, they have responsibilities, and they should not be allowed to ban people for no reason.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    Facebook did not buy Discord which is currently the best messaging service on the market. They didn't buy slack either.
  - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
    whatsapp is just a lame messaging app, there is literally thousands of them I live fine without using any FB products if your livelihood depends on a lame messaging app something is wrong with your business
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      In my world we call this victim blaming. Go out and meet some people whose families are on Whatsapp. Whose parents or grandparents know exactly how to use the one app and that's it. I boycott LinkedIn and I have enough trouble as it is because of that. And it's LinkedIn, a lame-ass feel-good social network. WhatsApp is a messaging app and has over 2 billion users, with a penetration so large in some countries (especially Europe) that it gets special treatment for ISPs, it's often the only way to contact some businesses, and has de facto replaced SMS for many. There aren't "thousands of messaging apps" with that kind of userbase. Pointless for you? Good for you. Your life is not others', though, please have empathy.