5 ms·

The problem is that people can’t actually take over fast enough necessarily. If you’re not actively driving, then you can’t just immediately react.

epgui 4y ago
The NHTSA report says that on average, an attentive driver would have been able to react 8 seconds before the crash. 8 seconds is a lot of time on the highway (where autopilot can be used).
- freeflight 4y ago
  Yet the autopilot system chose to only warn the drivers 1 second before impact, which is basically no time at all to react to anything. So if those 8 seconds of "autopilot ain't too sure" actually exist, then the car needs to signal that to the driver so the driver can be ready to take over. The fact it still doesn't do that, speaks volumes about the kind of "progress" Tesla seems to be making, none of it good.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    The crashes were not of a kind that Autopilot could have detected earlier. Several involved stationary objects, that Autopilot seems to intentionally ignore because it can't tell apart what's actually in the way of the car from harmless features of the surroundings that will never cause a collision. Which just goes to prove: Autopilot = glorified cruise control. You must never expect it to keep you safe.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > Autopilot = glorified cruise control Isn't that what the name implies? An autopilot keeps heading and speed.
zozbot234 4y ago
Sure, but what does that have to do with Autopilot? "Driver gets into a crash because they were spaced out and not actually paying attention to the road" is something that happens all the time, no need for modern ADAS.
- epgui 4y ago
  Exactly, the most important metric/question is whether it improves overall safety compared to the baseline.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    That's the metric Tesla and the self-driving car industry would like to use, but I don't see why it's the most important. Also, it misconstrues 'most important' to mean 'all that's important'. We could just ban personal vehicles to improve overall safety.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Because “drivers space out when using a system that removes the stimulus of driving that keeps them alert” is not solely the fault of the individual when it’s not possible in real world scenarios to use it safely.
googlryas 4y ago
But you're supposed to be actively driving with autopilot. I use autopilot every now and then, and when I do, I literally keep my hands on the wheel in a driving position, and my foot resting lightly on the pedal.
- legalcorrection 4y ago
  You by definition can’t be actively driving. You’re just watching. It’s active driving that keeps you alert in the first place.
- ulfw 4y ago
  Then what are you going from Autopilot? How's foot hovering any more comfortable than lightly putting it down? How is hands on wheel in a driving position more comfortable than occasionally turning the wheel? Seems a tiny gain compared to the dangers of the system.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Very late reply but...what I gain is basically nitpicky adjustments to lane and speed control. I'm extremely active in the sense that I am constantly observing near, medium, and far distances while driving, but I'm just not providing minor steering inputs directly. I think that I can better observe the conditions if I'm not providing those controls, even though I need to keep a model of autopilot and its abilities running in my head. Having said that, that model is simple - dump out of autopilot as soon as there is any kind of complexity added to the environment.

epgui 4y ago

The NHTSA report says that on average, an attentive driver would have been able to react 8 seconds before the crash. 8 seconds is a lot of time on the highway (where autopilot can be used).

freeflight 4y ago
Yet the autopilot system chose to only warn the drivers 1 second before impact, which is basically no time at all to react to anything. So if those 8 seconds of "autopilot ain't too sure" actually exist, then the car needs to signal that to the driver so the driver can be ready to take over. The fact it still doesn't do that, speaks volumes about the kind of "progress" Tesla seems to be making, none of it good.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  The crashes were not of a kind that Autopilot could have detected earlier. Several involved stationary objects, that Autopilot seems to intentionally ignore because it can't tell apart what's actually in the way of the car from harmless features of the surroundings that will never cause a collision. Which just goes to prove: Autopilot = glorified cruise control. You must never expect it to keep you safe.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > Autopilot = glorified cruise control Isn't that what the name implies? An autopilot keeps heading and speed.

zozbot234 4y ago

Sure, but what does that have to do with Autopilot? "Driver gets into a crash because they were spaced out and not actually paying attention to the road" is something that happens all the time, no need for modern ADAS.

epgui 4y ago
Exactly, the most important metric/question is whether it improves overall safety compared to the baseline.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  That's the metric Tesla and the self-driving car industry would like to use, but I don't see why it's the most important. Also, it misconstrues 'most important' to mean 'all that's important'. We could just ban personal vehicles to improve overall safety.
Spivak 4y ago
Because “drivers space out when using a system that removes the stimulus of driving that keeps them alert” is not solely the fault of the individual when it’s not possible in real world scenarios to use it safely.

googlryas 4y ago

But you're supposed to be actively driving with autopilot. I use autopilot every now and then, and when I do, I literally keep my hands on the wheel in a driving position, and my foot resting lightly on the pedal.

legalcorrection 4y ago
You by definition can’t be actively driving. You’re just watching. It’s active driving that keeps you alert in the first place.
ulfw 4y ago
Then what are you going from Autopilot? How's foot hovering any more comfortable than lightly putting it down? How is hands on wheel in a driving position more comfortable than occasionally turning the wheel? Seems a tiny gain compared to the dangers of the system.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Very late reply but...what I gain is basically nitpicky adjustments to lane and speed control. I'm extremely active in the sense that I am constantly observing near, medium, and far distances while driving, but I'm just not providing minor steering inputs directly. I think that I can better observe the conditions if I'm not providing those controls, even though I need to keep a model of autopilot and its abilities running in my head. Having said that, that model is simple - dump out of autopilot as soon as there is any kind of complexity added to the environment.