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I feel like that is misunderstanding scrum. For example, standup is not supposed to be a status report, yet so many companies use it as one. In my mind it’s j

I feel like that is misunderstanding scrum. For example, standup is not supposed to be a status report, yet so many companies use it as one. In my mind it’s just a daily ritual where the team comes together and very quickly discusses the day. It should last no longer than 5 minutes. I understand that not everyone even wants that, and that’s totally cool, but standup gets a bad name since most people have experienced it as a status report.

sanderjd 4y ago
I think the reason people end up using it as a status report is that nobody understands what to say otherwise. I can either say only "I'm not blocked" every day like a broken record (because if I were blocked why would I wait until the next morning to say so...), or I can say, "I'm not blocked and here's what I'm up to today", which is just a status report.
- sodapopcan 4y ago
  It’s supposed be more of a quick planning meeting. But yes, I would often just say “pass”. Although really as far as I’m concerned it’s all about the ritual of coming together every day.
  - sanderjd 4y ago
    I "quick planning" is an oxymoron. If anyone says "I plan to do this today" and the response is "actually you shouldn't, you should do something else", that one thing is going to be at least five minutes of discussion. If that happens twice or thrice it might as well be a half hour meeting. And I actively dislike / don't understand the value of that sort of ritual...
    - sodapopcan 4y ago
      It’s about coming together as a team as far as I’m concern and get energized for the day. It doesn’t work for everyone and that’s ok. “Quick planning” is like, “Hey, I need with this today. Is anyone available?” But really it’s about coming together for me.
      - sanderjd 4y ago
        I don't want to diminish your experience, I recognize that this makes sense for you, but it's a "to each their own" situation and I want to give you a perspective from the other side: I find stand-ups to be the exact opposite of energizing. The way I get energized is when I have something I'm so excited about working on that I've spent the whole night or weekend having to remind myself to stop thinking about it and be present with my family or friends, and then I sit down at my desk and get to dive straight into it. An hour or two later when I start following up on emails or doing chats or a stand up, that's fine, but it's not energizing, it's just when reality sets in. I think this is just like the remote vs. in-person thing; it's mostly a personality trait. I don't have the "daily team ritual" gene, but others do, and that's ok.
        sodapopcan 4y ago
        Oh ya, if you read my replies around this thread (I’m not suggesting you should) I’m saying that it’s “to each their own.” I’m only defending stand up as a concept, but if a team doesn’t find it valuable they shouldn’t do it (same goes for all rituals and meetings). I’m realizing now there is a distinction on where the discussion is “I’m being forced to do stand up and it sucks” vs “This is why I like stand up.” As someone in the latter camp, if your standup is a soul-sucking status report (pr just plain soul-sucking), then atop doing it! And yet, your company is forcing you to do it. And that sucks.
        sanderjd 4y ago
        Yeah totally, I got the sense that we agree on "to each their own" but land in different places. The unfortunate thing is that it's totally possible (indeed common) for members of a team to come down in different places on this. So you could have half the team's eyes glazing over every day while the other half of the team would lament losing the ritual.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  I don't see the problem with the status report, as long as it's the culture that you usually only need a sentence or two. Imo in bigger stand-ups, there's more pressure to sort of "show off", which means talking more, and combined with having more people there already it takes forever and is really painful. But if it's just a handful of people who work together saying a couple sentences each on average, unless they're blocked or something interesting happened, it's fine.
  - sanderjd 4y ago
    Yeah I mean I prefer not to do it, but I don't hate the "small status report" kind of stand up. But I just question the "it isn't a status report!" line of explanation. If it isn't, then what is it? I often hear in response to this "it's just for blockers", but I have always found that particularly weird, because who just stays blocked until the next morning?
    - sodapopcan 4y ago
      Ya, the "just for blockers" doesn't make sense. As far as I'm concerned, it's just time at the beginning of the today to come together to figure out what needs to be done for the day. The issue I take with "status report" is that I don't care, at all, about all the little things people did yesterday. I usually just tune out and I'm most others do as well.
cillian64 4y ago
Isn't the big point here that the daily stand-up is meant to be for communication within the team, not for reporting to management or stakeholders?
- sodapopcan 4y ago
  Indeed. But lots of places, including my current employer, don’t follow this.
JamesBarney 4y ago
I've worked for 15 different companies, and 13 of those had a standup. And of those 13/13 were a status report.

sanderjd 4y ago

I think the reason people end up using it as a status report is that nobody understands what to say otherwise. I can either say only "I'm not blocked" every day like a broken record (because if I were blocked why would I wait until the next morning to say so...), or I can say, "I'm not blocked and here's what I'm up to today", which is just a status report.

sodapopcan 4y ago
It’s supposed be more of a quick planning meeting. But yes, I would often just say “pass”. Although really as far as I’m concerned it’s all about the ritual of coming together every day.
- sanderjd 4y ago
  I "quick planning" is an oxymoron. If anyone says "I plan to do this today" and the response is "actually you shouldn't, you should do something else", that one thing is going to be at least five minutes of discussion. If that happens twice or thrice it might as well be a half hour meeting. And I actively dislike / don't understand the value of that sort of ritual...
  - sodapopcan 4y ago
    It’s about coming together as a team as far as I’m concern and get energized for the day. It doesn’t work for everyone and that’s ok. “Quick planning” is like, “Hey, I need with this today. Is anyone available?” But really it’s about coming together for me.
    - sanderjd 4y ago
      I don't want to diminish your experience, I recognize that this makes sense for you, but it's a "to each their own" situation and I want to give you a perspective from the other side: I find stand-ups to be the exact opposite of energizing. The way I get energized is when I have something I'm so excited about working on that I've spent the whole night or weekend having to remind myself to stop thinking about it and be present with my family or friends, and then I sit down at my desk and get to dive straight into it. An hour or two later when I start following up on emails or doing chats or a stand up, that's fine, but it's not energizing, it's just when reality sets in. I think this is just like the remote vs. in-person thing; it's mostly a personality trait. I don't have the "daily team ritual" gene, but others do, and that's ok.
      - sodapopcan 4y ago
        Oh ya, if you read my replies around this thread (I’m not suggesting you should) I’m saying that it’s “to each their own.” I’m only defending stand up as a concept, but if a team doesn’t find it valuable they shouldn’t do it (same goes for all rituals and meetings). I’m realizing now there is a distinction on where the discussion is “I’m being forced to do stand up and it sucks” vs “This is why I like stand up.” As someone in the latter camp, if your standup is a soul-sucking status report (pr just plain soul-sucking), then atop doing it! And yet, your company is forcing you to do it. And that sucks.
        sanderjd 4y ago
        Yeah totally, I got the sense that we agree on "to each their own" but land in different places. The unfortunate thing is that it's totally possible (indeed common) for members of a team to come down in different places on this. So you could have half the team's eyes glazing over every day while the other half of the team would lament losing the ritual.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
I don't see the problem with the status report, as long as it's the culture that you usually only need a sentence or two. Imo in bigger stand-ups, there's more pressure to sort of "show off", which means talking more, and combined with having more people there already it takes forever and is really painful. But if it's just a handful of people who work together saying a couple sentences each on average, unless they're blocked or something interesting happened, it's fine.
- sanderjd 4y ago
  Yeah I mean I prefer not to do it, but I don't hate the "small status report" kind of stand up. But I just question the "it isn't a status report!" line of explanation. If it isn't, then what is it? I often hear in response to this "it's just for blockers", but I have always found that particularly weird, because who just stays blocked until the next morning?
  - sodapopcan 4y ago
    Ya, the "just for blockers" doesn't make sense. As far as I'm concerned, it's just time at the beginning of the today to come together to figure out what needs to be done for the day. The issue I take with "status report" is that I don't care, at all, about all the little things people did yesterday. I usually just tune out and I'm most others do as well.

cillian64 4y ago

Isn't the big point here that the daily stand-up is meant to be for communication within the team, not for reporting to management or stakeholders?

sodapopcan 4y ago
Indeed. But lots of places, including my current employer, don’t follow this.

JamesBarney 4y ago

I've worked for 15 different companies, and 13 of those had a standup. And of those 13/13 were a status report.