5 ms·

Rtings maintains a list of ad-free TVs. This isn't the same as smart-free, but maybe that's what some people want: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart

Rtings maintains a list of ad-free TVs. This isn't the same as smart-free, but maybe that's what some people want: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv (The ones with a "10" in the ad-free column.) The often-given advice of "just don't connect it to the internet" is viable only sometimes. My TV shipped with some missing features that were enabled after a software update. Perhaps plug it in, update the software, and then unplug it again.

wmf 4y ago
They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service owned by Vizio.
- atomicfiredoll 4y ago
  Vizio has also apparently decided to ramp up it's ad growth [0] and Jump Ad [1] platform as well. It makes me real glad that I didn't drop the money on a P Series Quantum due to technical issues people experienced. I've stopped considering them completely since. It's important to remember these reviews can become outdated with firmware, too. Even old TVs can suddenly start "benefiting viewers, content providers and advertisers" with "features" like ads playing as screensavers, and phoning the content of your screen back to Big Brother. Here's a related Reddit thread from the Jump Ad announcement [2]. [0] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-becoming-the-product-vizio-sells-not-just-its-customers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-... [1] - https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1648829114 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=... [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_are_now_showing_banner_ads_over_live_tv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_a...
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Another option if you have good control over your router is to put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc. Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too. This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.
- monkpit 4y ago
  These products are designed not to rely upon DNS to serve the ad content, though.
  - b112 4y ago
    If true, this is an excellent chance for white hat flooding. Knock, and keep that ip offline. With no way to change locationation(DNS), their little ad sceme won't work. Even better if it makes companies shy about using such methods.
    - jsjohnst 4y ago
      > white hat flooding Very curious definition of “white hat” you have
      - b112 4y ago
        A white hat works for the public good, yes?
        jsjohnst 4y ago
        Sure, but is vigilantism for the public good?
        ForHackernews 4y ago
        gruez 4y ago
        Close, but no. >A white hat (or a white hat hacker) is an ethical security hacker.[1] Ethical hacking is a term meant to imply a broader category than just penetration testing.[2][3] Under the owner's consent, white hat hackers aim to identify any vulnerabilities the current system has. [...] There is a third kind of hacker known as a grey hat who hacks with good intentions but at times without permission.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_security) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_security)
GekkePrutser 4y ago
It's not the same at all, smart tvs can still send tracking data home about what you're viewing etc. I would not want either.
- tunap 4y ago
  Ditto. And what's to stop someone from making a relay/chip/switch to turn the speakers into microphones when the TV is off-not-off, save Big Co LLC the microphone costs and get a big fat promotion? If it's possible, someone will do it. Remember when Goog "forgot" to mention the Nest microphone? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/googles-nest-alarm-system-has-a-microphone-unknown-to-consumers/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/googles-nest-alarm-system-has-a... EDIT: Even better, Visio's lapse. This shit used to be illegal, and now it's supposed to be not super creepy, too? No thanks. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/vizio-television-vizio-collected-viewers-habits-consent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/vizio-television...
  - hedora 4y ago
    Also, Samsung devices have started establishing mesh networks with each other.
pessimizer 4y ago
Does anything keep them from adding ads to your already purchased television at an arbitrary time in the future?
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  Nothing except the dangers of terrible PR, I suppose.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    Didn't stop Google from turning the top third of all Android-based TVs' UI into ads a while back. People weren't pleased that their $4000 Sony TVs were turned into a spam conduit, but Google was quite pleased to say FU.
    - ddingus 4y ago
      I just saw a TV labeled, "Android TV", and was curious. Wow. I won't be going forward and will probably just pay up for a commercial grade type set, or some combination of monitor / tuner. So far, I've been lucky. After finally moving off of a CRT for primary TV viewing, I picked up a smart plasma from Samsung. Never put it online, and that TV is awesome! Gonna miss it one day. Looks like OLED is going to deliver nicely, and that's what I'm looking at in the future. Did pick up two "Hi Sense" ROKU sets, and they are remarkably clean. Apparently, there are sets out there sans the AD spamming, and or I bought in just prior to this all very seriously escalating.
      - hedora 4y ago
        Roku gets you with ad targeting for ad supported programming. So, things with commercial breaks play ads based on what you watched on other channels. It's remarkably good at joining web browsing sessions from cookie-free web browsing sessions to my roku. I'm not sure what mechanism they use to join the accounts to web browsing sessions.
        4y ago
Uke 4y ago
or update via usb
throwaway81523 4y ago
If I have to narrow down a specific definition of "smart feature" I would say voice input of any sort. So my take on OP's question is: can I buy a TV that has no built in microphones? Maybe OP meant something different but that is what I would want. Simplest though is to just not have a TV at all. If there is something important, it will be online.
- sam_bristow 4y ago
  I ended up buying a cheap TCL brand TV a while ago. It still had all the smart features (which I didnt want) but at least it did have a physical switch to disable the microphone.
  - throwaway81523 4y ago
    Better check for more microphones. They are like potato chips. Bet they can't install just one ;).
  - ruraltech 4y ago
    If the TV has no Internet connection, the mic is useless. I use an Amazon Firestick in developer mode connected to a network that uses a P-hole and other mitigation efforts to keep all the nasty tracking, beacons, etc. minimized. Nothing is 100%, but we can come close. What I'd like to see is a browser that doesn't allow scanning of fonts, etc. There has to be a way to perhaps fake what they can see and poison their data collection.
- nborwankar 4y ago
  Yes that would be a close enough definition of what I meant. But I am also not sure if some TVs come with built in cameras. I don’t want those either. I am not happy with, but willing to tolerate, the “what I am watching” tracking that comes with say Apple TV. The 42” LG monitor with remote and speakers suggested elsewhere sounds interesting. Thanks all for the suggestions plus related discussions. The unrelated discussions are also very welcome. They are what give HN its “unique” flavor.

wmf 4y ago

They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service owned by Vizio.

atomicfiredoll 4y ago
Vizio has also apparently decided to ramp up it's ad growth [0] and Jump Ad [1] platform as well. It makes me real glad that I didn't drop the money on a P Series Quantum due to technical issues people experienced. I've stopped considering them completely since. It's important to remember these reviews can become outdated with firmware, too. Even old TVs can suddenly start "benefiting viewers, content providers and advertisers" with "features" like ads playing as screensavers, and phoning the content of your screen back to Big Brother. Here's a related Reddit thread from the Jump Ad announcement [2]. [0] - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-becoming-the-product-vizio-sells-not-just-its-customers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/vizio-tv-buyers-are-... [1] - https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1648829114 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=... [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_are_now_showing_banner_ads_over_live_tv/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/tv303i/vizio_tvs_a...

qbasic_forever 4y ago

Another option if you have good control over your router is to put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc. Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too. This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.

monkpit 4y ago
These products are designed not to rely upon DNS to serve the ad content, though.
- b112 4y ago
  If true, this is an excellent chance for white hat flooding. Knock, and keep that ip offline. With no way to change locationation(DNS), their little ad sceme won't work. Even better if it makes companies shy about using such methods.
  - jsjohnst 4y ago
    > white hat flooding Very curious definition of “white hat” you have
    - b112 4y ago
      A white hat works for the public good, yes?
      - jsjohnst 4y ago
        Sure, but is vigilantism for the public good?
        ForHackernews 4y ago
      - gruez 4y ago
        Close, but no. >A white hat (or a white hat hacker) is an ethical security hacker.[1] Ethical hacking is a term meant to imply a broader category than just penetration testing.[2][3] Under the owner's consent, white hat hackers aim to identify any vulnerabilities the current system has. [...] There is a third kind of hacker known as a grey hat who hacks with good intentions but at times without permission.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_security) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_security)

GekkePrutser 4y ago

It's not the same at all, smart tvs can still send tracking data home about what you're viewing etc. I would not want either.

tunap 4y ago
Ditto. And what's to stop someone from making a relay/chip/switch to turn the speakers into microphones when the TV is off-not-off, save Big Co LLC the microphone costs and get a big fat promotion? If it's possible, someone will do it. Remember when Goog "forgot" to mention the Nest microphone? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/googles-nest-alarm-system-has-a-microphone-unknown-to-consumers/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/googles-nest-alarm-system-has-a... EDIT: Even better, Visio's lapse. This shit used to be illegal, and now it's supposed to be not super creepy, too? No thanks. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/vizio-television-vizio-collected-viewers-habits-consent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/business/vizio-television...
- hedora 4y ago
  Also, Samsung devices have started establishing mesh networks with each other.

pessimizer 4y ago

Does anything keep them from adding ads to your already purchased television at an arbitrary time in the future?

LeoPanthera 4y ago
Nothing except the dangers of terrible PR, I suppose.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  Didn't stop Google from turning the top third of all Android-based TVs' UI into ads a while back. People weren't pleased that their $4000 Sony TVs were turned into a spam conduit, but Google was quite pleased to say FU.
  - ddingus 4y ago
    I just saw a TV labeled, "Android TV", and was curious. Wow. I won't be going forward and will probably just pay up for a commercial grade type set, or some combination of monitor / tuner. So far, I've been lucky. After finally moving off of a CRT for primary TV viewing, I picked up a smart plasma from Samsung. Never put it online, and that TV is awesome! Gonna miss it one day. Looks like OLED is going to deliver nicely, and that's what I'm looking at in the future. Did pick up two "Hi Sense" ROKU sets, and they are remarkably clean. Apparently, there are sets out there sans the AD spamming, and or I bought in just prior to this all very seriously escalating.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Roku gets you with ad targeting for ad supported programming. So, things with commercial breaks play ads based on what you watched on other channels. It's remarkably good at joining web browsing sessions from cookie-free web browsing sessions to my roku. I'm not sure what mechanism they use to join the accounts to web browsing sessions.
      - 4y ago

Uke 4y ago

or update via usb

throwaway81523 4y ago

If I have to narrow down a specific definition of "smart feature" I would say voice input of any sort. So my take on OP's question is: can I buy a TV that has no built in microphones? Maybe OP meant something different but that is what I would want. Simplest though is to just not have a TV at all. If there is something important, it will be online.

sam_bristow 4y ago
I ended up buying a cheap TCL brand TV a while ago. It still had all the smart features (which I didnt want) but at least it did have a physical switch to disable the microphone.
- throwaway81523 4y ago
  Better check for more microphones. They are like potato chips. Bet they can't install just one ;).
- ruraltech 4y ago
  If the TV has no Internet connection, the mic is useless. I use an Amazon Firestick in developer mode connected to a network that uses a P-hole and other mitigation efforts to keep all the nasty tracking, beacons, etc. minimized. Nothing is 100%, but we can come close. What I'd like to see is a browser that doesn't allow scanning of fonts, etc. There has to be a way to perhaps fake what they can see and poison their data collection.
nborwankar 4y ago
Yes that would be a close enough definition of what I meant. But I am also not sure if some TVs come with built in cameras. I don’t want those either. I am not happy with, but willing to tolerate, the “what I am watching” tracking that comes with say Apple TV. The 42” LG monitor with remote and speakers suggested elsewhere sounds interesting. Thanks all for the suggestions plus related discussions. The unrelated discussions are also very welcome. They are what give HN its “unique” flavor.