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This. A thousand times this. I was talking to a friend of mine about the "Digital Dark Ages." He didn't believe me that we were unable to view data that we had

This. A thousand times this. I was talking to a friend of mine about the "Digital Dark Ages." He didn't believe me that we were unable to view data that we had sitting around on computers anymore; one of my prime examples was computer games from the 80s that relied on bugs in the hardware to run. I'm glad that emulators exist to be provide that service. But, man, being able to say, "Yeah, here's the URL to the gist of Choplifter," would be something completely different. The level of accessibility provided by the World's Largest Runtime (tm) would be unreal.

cpeterso 15y ago
If ASCII is the universal, forward-compatible data format, is JavaScript to become the universal runtime environment? Every layer of software builds upon the lower software (and hardware) layers (and bugs). It's like a Jenga tower of dependencies. It would be nice if some middle layers could be excised/refactored to simplify our technology stack.
- mechanical_fish 15y ago
  If we took out the Javascript layer we'd be down to C, right? We've had emulators written in portable C for nigh on twenty years. Where's the challenge in that? ;) The advantage of JS as a runtime environment is that it's got the most extensive cross-platform app ecosystem in the world, with a lot of eyeballs on it. Every new difference that arises between the behavior of a JS engine and that of its peers is greeted by a hundred thousand screams from the mouths of a hundred thousand web developers. Plus, I believe the pain required to get your app to run in all the popular JS engines is mild when you compare it to the ins and outs of cross-platform C libraries.
  - MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
    Actually, no, beneath the JS layer is the browser, which is a massive wall of architecture-independent C++ with its own graphics abstractions and high-level constructs. You'd need to drop another level or three to reach the C layer. I dare you to actually try SDL sometime; it is far less pain than doing browser work in JS.
- nknight 15y ago
  If the premise is ASCII, JavaScript cannot be the result. ASCII is intensely simple and, for its intended purpose, very close to perfect. JavaScript is... not. JavaScript is, at best, the most common language used for today's GUI applications. It and its "toolkit" (the DOM and HTML) need a lot of work, particularly wart removal, if they're going to have the timelessness of ASCII or its successor (UTF-8).
  - dreamdu5t 15y ago
    The DOM and HTML need work, sure. But JavaScript is perfect.
    - nknight 15y ago
      Brendan Eich would seem to disagree[1], as would, well, everyone else I've ever heard talk about JS, so I'm not sure from whence you draw that rather remarkable assertion. It may or may not meet your particular needs, but that has very little relationship to its perfection. [1] http://brendaneich.com/2005/06/javascript-1-2-and-in-between/ http://brendaneich.com/2005/06/javascript-1-2-and-in-between...
    - rictic 15y ago
      Javascript is beautiful and far simpler than most languages it resembles on the surface, but it is far from perfect. Fortunately there are many serious efforts at improving the language almost all of which compile down to today's javascript for backwards compatibility.
mukyu 15y ago
http://blog.archive.org/2011/09/03/hard-drive-archaeology-and-hackerspaces/ http://blog.archive.org/2011/09/03/hard-drive-archaeology-an... is a great example of this.
Natsu 15y ago
There's actually a fair amount of old hardware out there even still, but you're right that it won't last forever. Heck, there's an 8088 hiding under my bed, complete with math coprocessor, full RAM, CGA adapter (and monitor) and even a dot-matrix printer. One of these days, I should find out if it still works or not.

cpeterso 15y ago

If ASCII is the universal, forward-compatible data format, is JavaScript to become the universal runtime environment? Every layer of software builds upon the lower software (and hardware) layers (and bugs). It's like a Jenga tower of dependencies. It would be nice if some middle layers could be excised/refactored to simplify our technology stack.

mechanical_fish 15y ago
If we took out the Javascript layer we'd be down to C, right? We've had emulators written in portable C for nigh on twenty years. Where's the challenge in that? ;) The advantage of JS as a runtime environment is that it's got the most extensive cross-platform app ecosystem in the world, with a lot of eyeballs on it. Every new difference that arises between the behavior of a JS engine and that of its peers is greeted by a hundred thousand screams from the mouths of a hundred thousand web developers. Plus, I believe the pain required to get your app to run in all the popular JS engines is mild when you compare it to the ins and outs of cross-platform C libraries.
- MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
  Actually, no, beneath the JS layer is the browser, which is a massive wall of architecture-independent C++ with its own graphics abstractions and high-level constructs. You'd need to drop another level or three to reach the C layer. I dare you to actually try SDL sometime; it is far less pain than doing browser work in JS.
nknight 15y ago
If the premise is ASCII, JavaScript cannot be the result. ASCII is intensely simple and, for its intended purpose, very close to perfect. JavaScript is... not. JavaScript is, at best, the most common language used for today's GUI applications. It and its "toolkit" (the DOM and HTML) need a lot of work, particularly wart removal, if they're going to have the timelessness of ASCII or its successor (UTF-8).
- dreamdu5t 15y ago
  The DOM and HTML need work, sure. But JavaScript is perfect.
  - nknight 15y ago
    Brendan Eich would seem to disagree[1], as would, well, everyone else I've ever heard talk about JS, so I'm not sure from whence you draw that rather remarkable assertion. It may or may not meet your particular needs, but that has very little relationship to its perfection. [1] http://brendaneich.com/2005/06/javascript-1-2-and-in-between/ http://brendaneich.com/2005/06/javascript-1-2-and-in-between...
  - rictic 15y ago
    Javascript is beautiful and far simpler than most languages it resembles on the surface, but it is far from perfect. Fortunately there are many serious efforts at improving the language almost all of which compile down to today's javascript for backwards compatibility.

mukyu 15y ago

http://blog.archive.org/2011/09/03/hard-drive-archaeology-and-hackerspaces/ http://blog.archive.org/2011/09/03/hard-drive-archaeology-an... is a great example of this.

Natsu 15y ago

There's actually a fair amount of old hardware out there even still, but you're right that it won't last forever. Heck, there's an 8088 hiding under my bed, complete with math coprocessor, full RAM, CGA adapter (and monitor) and even a dot-matrix printer. One of these days, I should find out if it still works or not.