4 ms·

> Replacing Russia with the U.S. gives the U.S. too much power over the EU. It can be used as a bargaining chip in unrelated negotiations like privacy rights et

> Replacing Russia with the U.S. gives the U.S. too much power over the EU. It can be used as a bargaining chip in unrelated negotiations like privacy rights etc. I agree with this.

toss1 4y ago
>>U.S. too much power over the EU Bullshirt Russia has already explicitly used energy blackmail on EU nations, and is specifically pushing Nordstream, etc. pipelines to create such dependency. Most recently Russia broke it's contracts and demanded payment in Rubles in order to support it's currency after launching a genocidal attack on it's neighbor. US policy has been explicitly AGAINST even allowing exports for decades, and only relaxed recently in order to support our EU friends. Russia is an entirely unreliable supplier, the US is reliable. Take your new troll account and go back to Leningrad, Boris.
- hal1234 4y ago
  I'm against this war, but I think the history is a little different. Russia has always been a reliable supplier except for the recent demand to pay in Rubles. Nordstream was built because Ukraine was an unreliable transit nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_ga... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/03/russia-ukraine-gas-supplies-gazprom https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/03/russia-ukraine...
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Maybe it’s hard to be reliable when Russia keeps attacking you.
  - toss1 4y ago
    If "Ukraine was an unreliable transit nation" it was only because Russia kept shutting off their supply to attempt to undermine their government and extract consessions. In Putin's latest speech, he laid bare the goals - to re-enact Peter The Great and restore Russian lands', which basically include anything Russia wants, not merely Ukraine, but Poland, Lithuania, Sweden (which PTG took with the same excuse of it 'being Russian'. Putin is literally working to rebuild a 19th century empire with 19th century war rules, genocide included. If you are supporting this in any way, again, you are at best a Useful Idiot (in the Vladimir Lenin sense) or at worst a paid bot/troll. Stop it
- fritigern 4y ago
  I hate it when people can't have a reasonable discussion and resort to calling others as "bots". Not everyone who disagrees with you is Russian or a bot.
  - toss1 4y ago
    Not everyone is, but when you are a new account obviously doing nothing but making simplistic and inaccurate arguments carrying Putin's water, you are at best a Useful Idiot (in the Vladimir Lenin sense) or a troll/bot.
    - fritigern 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
      - toss1 4y ago
        Inapplicable here You literally are carrying Putin's water in this discussion. People doing that are either fooled, or doing it deliberately. I did leave out the option that you could actually support anti-democratic authoritarian governments, because there is no enlightened thought path to that conclusion (& no Hobbes' writings do not get there), leaving us with only the two options, fooled, or trolling for a higher power structure. I'm not really interested in which.

> Replacing Russia with the U.S. gives the U.S. too much power over the EU. It can be used as a bargaining chip in unrelated negotiations like privacy rights etc. I agree with this.

toss1 4y ago

>>U.S. too much power over the EU Bullshirt Russia has already explicitly used energy blackmail on EU nations, and is specifically pushing Nordstream, etc. pipelines to create such dependency. Most recently Russia broke it's contracts and demanded payment in Rubles in order to support it's currency after launching a genocidal attack on it's neighbor. US policy has been explicitly AGAINST even allowing exports for decades, and only relaxed recently in order to support our EU friends. Russia is an entirely unreliable supplier, the US is reliable. Take your new troll account and go back to Leningrad, Boris.

hal1234 4y ago
I'm against this war, but I think the history is a little different. Russia has always been a reliable supplier except for the recent demand to pay in Rubles. Nordstream was built because Ukraine was an unreliable transit nation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_ga... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/03/russia-ukraine-gas-supplies-gazprom https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/03/russia-ukraine...
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Maybe it’s hard to be reliable when Russia keeps attacking you.
- toss1 4y ago
  If "Ukraine was an unreliable transit nation" it was only because Russia kept shutting off their supply to attempt to undermine their government and extract consessions. In Putin's latest speech, he laid bare the goals - to re-enact Peter The Great and restore Russian lands', which basically include anything Russia wants, not merely Ukraine, but Poland, Lithuania, Sweden (which PTG took with the same excuse of it 'being Russian'. Putin is literally working to rebuild a 19th century empire with 19th century war rules, genocide included. If you are supporting this in any way, again, you are at best a Useful Idiot (in the Vladimir Lenin sense) or at worst a paid bot/troll. Stop it
fritigern 4y ago
I hate it when people can't have a reasonable discussion and resort to calling others as "bots". Not everyone who disagrees with you is Russian or a bot.
- toss1 4y ago
  Not everyone is, but when you are a new account obviously doing nothing but making simplistic and inaccurate arguments carrying Putin's water, you are at best a Useful Idiot (in the Vladimir Lenin sense) or a troll/bot.
  - fritigern 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
    - toss1 4y ago
      Inapplicable here You literally are carrying Putin's water in this discussion. People doing that are either fooled, or doing it deliberately. I did leave out the option that you could actually support anti-democratic authoritarian governments, because there is no enlightened thought path to that conclusion (& no Hobbes' writings do not get there), leaving us with only the two options, fooled, or trolling for a higher power structure. I'm not really interested in which.