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I like how you phrased this, I feel like this is how people had to talk in times of heavy censorship and the fact we have to pass messages like this in this day

I like how you phrased this, I feel like this is how people had to talk in times of heavy censorship and the fact we have to pass messages like this in this day and age is terrifying and makes the future seem bleak.

marcinzm 4y ago
You do realize that socially imposed norms about what topics you talk about, in what context, between whom and how has probably been the norm for longer than written history?
- Ambolia 4y ago
  The problem is that usually those norms were dictated by some monarch because he had power and took the responsibility for that power and its consequences. Now nobody is taking the responsibility, but we still have the norms.
gpu_explorer 4y ago
Vaccines have been in use for hundreds of years. Fear of vaccines isn't rational. https://historyofvaccines.org/ https://historyofvaccines.org/
- MacsHeadroom 4y ago
  MRNA therapies as vaccines have been used in humans for 2 years. For terminally ill people they were used for purposes other than vaccination for ~5 years. Prior to that they caused a very high occurrence of (often deadly) problems in non-human mammals for their ~30 years of study. This is why they were only used on the terminally ill prior to COVID. "Vaccines" which have been around for a long time and MRNA therapy for vaccination are two very different things. It's like saying "Fear of Sugar of Lead isn't rational because sugars have been around for all of human history."
- native_samples 4y ago
  That's like saying: Medical drugs have been in use for hundreds of years. Fearing experimental drugs isn't rational. Or Doctors have been doing surgery for hundreds of years. Fear of surgery isn't rational. There are at least three entirely rational reasons to "fear" vaccines: 1. They're a category, not a specific product. Safety of one doesn't automatically imply safety of all. See examples above. 2. The history of vaccines is full of failures which ended up injuring or killing healthy people e.g. polio, in more recent times, Pandemrix. 3. Vaccines appear to trigger deeply problematic psychology in which people point blank refuse to believe in any downsides at all, something you don't see in e.g. chemotherapy, surgery, drug treatments and so on. Probably it's the combination of giving them to healthy people and the collective/coercive policies that often accompany them. If anything goes wrong at all, ever, then you've hurt an innocent person who was previously fine and who trusted you, which would be tough for even the coldest most calculating person to handle. And people in public health appear to be the exact opposite of that. Therefore the sort of people who believe most strongly on vaccines are often poorly informed about them. You gave us a great example of this problem above when you revealed you thought VAERS had only 28,000 reports in it total. This is basic data and you weren't aware of it, so how rational can you really be on the topic? Certainly, vaccines are surrounded by immense propaganda as a topic. By the way in case you're wondering, before the COVID mandates I never thought about vaccines, had taken my set of shots and held "anti vaxxers" in contempt like a typical HN user. Not anymore. Watching the process of development, testing, rollout subsequent cover-ups of the real data, and blanket censorship has changed me forever. You can't unsee what happened.

marcinzm 4y ago

You do realize that socially imposed norms about what topics you talk about, in what context, between whom and how has probably been the norm for longer than written history?

Ambolia 4y ago
The problem is that usually those norms were dictated by some monarch because he had power and took the responsibility for that power and its consequences. Now nobody is taking the responsibility, but we still have the norms.

gpu_explorer 4y ago

Vaccines have been in use for hundreds of years. Fear of vaccines isn't rational. https://historyofvaccines.org/ https://historyofvaccines.org/

MacsHeadroom 4y ago
MRNA therapies as vaccines have been used in humans for 2 years. For terminally ill people they were used for purposes other than vaccination for ~5 years. Prior to that they caused a very high occurrence of (often deadly) problems in non-human mammals for their ~30 years of study. This is why they were only used on the terminally ill prior to COVID. "Vaccines" which have been around for a long time and MRNA therapy for vaccination are two very different things. It's like saying "Fear of Sugar of Lead isn't rational because sugars have been around for all of human history."
native_samples 4y ago
That's like saying: Medical drugs have been in use for hundreds of years. Fearing experimental drugs isn't rational. Or Doctors have been doing surgery for hundreds of years. Fear of surgery isn't rational. There are at least three entirely rational reasons to "fear" vaccines: 1. They're a category, not a specific product. Safety of one doesn't automatically imply safety of all. See examples above. 2. The history of vaccines is full of failures which ended up injuring or killing healthy people e.g. polio, in more recent times, Pandemrix. 3. Vaccines appear to trigger deeply problematic psychology in which people point blank refuse to believe in any downsides at all, something you don't see in e.g. chemotherapy, surgery, drug treatments and so on. Probably it's the combination of giving them to healthy people and the collective/coercive policies that often accompany them. If anything goes wrong at all, ever, then you've hurt an innocent person who was previously fine and who trusted you, which would be tough for even the coldest most calculating person to handle. And people in public health appear to be the exact opposite of that. Therefore the sort of people who believe most strongly on vaccines are often poorly informed about them. You gave us a great example of this problem above when you revealed you thought VAERS had only 28,000 reports in it total. This is basic data and you weren't aware of it, so how rational can you really be on the topic? Certainly, vaccines are surrounded by immense propaganda as a topic. By the way in case you're wondering, before the COVID mandates I never thought about vaccines, had taken my set of shots and held "anti vaxxers" in contempt like a typical HN user. Not anymore. Watching the process of development, testing, rollout subsequent cover-ups of the real data, and blanket censorship has changed me forever. You can't unsee what happened.