4 ms·

Right, so we should reopen psychiatric institutions, and harshly prosecute people for property crimes. This has proven an effective strategy to reduce criminali

Right, so we should reopen psychiatric institutions, and harshly prosecute people for property crimes. This has proven an effective strategy to reduce criminality overall.

harmon 4y ago
Honestly, I do think we should reopen psychiatric institutions (although properly funded and regulated this time) and forcibly treat certain people that need help. I don't think it is good or acceptable to allow people with obviously severe mental illness to self medicate with unregulated drugs or alcohol and walk around disrupting society. The current state of affairs works for no one, especially the mentally ill who we could be treating but have chosen not to. As for property crime, no one wants to live in a society where someone can steal your stuff with impunity, as the broadly supported recent recall of the DA in SF has clearly shown.
jamal-kumar 4y ago
I think it isn't a very popular opinion to reopen those due to the enormous amounts of abuse that went on in those places. A more progressive approach I feel would be reopening them far away from cities and in nature... Much less like a prison and much more like going to summer camp. Not prosecuting property crimes has to be the biggest what the hell did they think was going to happen I have ever seen. Impunity is a slippery slope.
- thegrimmest 4y ago
  It's indeed not a very popular opinion, but I think if you ask most people in private, they would happily tolerate the most abusive asylums/penal institutions if they could live in a legitimately polite, safe society, where even minor property crimes are a vanishingly rare occurrence.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    Why does it have to be "most abusive" though, like isn't it obvious this just exacerbates problems to anyone with a mote of empathy and foresight? Maybe you know different people than I do but I don't think that line of thought is as common as you think.
    - thegrimmest 4y ago
      I never said they have to be abusive, only that even significant abuse of the violent minority would be tolerated by the peaceful majority. As to why they have to be abusive at all, I would ask you what is the difference between unwarranted abuse and effective operant conditioning?
      - jamal-kumar 4y ago
        Yeah, how about neither? You know there's countries out there which aren't trapped in endless recividism cycles and enormous organized crime recruitment in the penal system right?
- moistly 4y ago
  > due to the enormous amounts of abuse that went on There’s an enormous amount of abuse in homeless encampments and on the streets. Shutting down psych hospitals didn’t reduce the abuse, it just moved it from a system we’re responsible for and could improve, to an un-system we can ignore and can’t improve. IMO, shuttering the wards was cruel.
bergenty 4y ago
Not harshly prosecute people for property crimes but definitely prosecute them.

Right, so we should reopen psychiatric institutions, and harshly prosecute people for property crimes. This has proven an effective strategy to reduce criminality overall.

harmon 4y ago

Honestly, I do think we should reopen psychiatric institutions (although properly funded and regulated this time) and forcibly treat certain people that need help. I don't think it is good or acceptable to allow people with obviously severe mental illness to self medicate with unregulated drugs or alcohol and walk around disrupting society. The current state of affairs works for no one, especially the mentally ill who we could be treating but have chosen not to. As for property crime, no one wants to live in a society where someone can steal your stuff with impunity, as the broadly supported recent recall of the DA in SF has clearly shown.

jamal-kumar 4y ago

I think it isn't a very popular opinion to reopen those due to the enormous amounts of abuse that went on in those places. A more progressive approach I feel would be reopening them far away from cities and in nature... Much less like a prison and much more like going to summer camp. Not prosecuting property crimes has to be the biggest what the hell did they think was going to happen I have ever seen. Impunity is a slippery slope.

thegrimmest 4y ago
It's indeed not a very popular opinion, but I think if you ask most people in private, they would happily tolerate the most abusive asylums/penal institutions if they could live in a legitimately polite, safe society, where even minor property crimes are a vanishingly rare occurrence.
- jamal-kumar 4y ago
  Why does it have to be "most abusive" though, like isn't it obvious this just exacerbates problems to anyone with a mote of empathy and foresight? Maybe you know different people than I do but I don't think that line of thought is as common as you think.
  - thegrimmest 4y ago
    I never said they have to be abusive, only that even significant abuse of the violent minority would be tolerated by the peaceful majority. As to why they have to be abusive at all, I would ask you what is the difference between unwarranted abuse and effective operant conditioning?
    - jamal-kumar 4y ago
      Yeah, how about neither? You know there's countries out there which aren't trapped in endless recividism cycles and enormous organized crime recruitment in the penal system right?
moistly 4y ago
> due to the enormous amounts of abuse that went on There’s an enormous amount of abuse in homeless encampments and on the streets. Shutting down psych hospitals didn’t reduce the abuse, it just moved it from a system we’re responsible for and could improve, to an un-system we can ignore and can’t improve. IMO, shuttering the wards was cruel.

bergenty 4y ago

Not harshly prosecute people for property crimes but definitely prosecute them.