4 ms·

I didn’t say do you accidentally engage in corporal punishment, I said if you believe in corporal punishment, implying a difference between a flaw and a belief

I didn’t say do you accidentally engage in corporal punishment, I said if you believe in corporal punishment, implying a difference between a flaw and a belief not shared by all that may still damage a child. Sure you can change your beliefs but it’s not like a flaw that your self reflective about. > Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws And yet often they continue to engage in them. I don’t know that we’re disagreeing all that much except perhaps on the definition of “control”. I don’t think most people have the self discipline to control their own behavior so much as influence it, but maybe that’s just one of my flaws.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
> I said if you believe in corporal punishment [...then you definitely wont ever stop engaging in it to any degree] Again, where are you getting the data for these assumptions of yours? >> Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws > And yet often they continue to engage in them Here we see the goalpost shift: *"OFTEN"* being added. If the rule isn't always true, then the advice, ("parenting doesn't matter") which depends on it always being true, is wrong. If people can, in fact, consciously better themselves, then the advice to not even try, because _we can only do what our genes and environment tell us to do_, is wrong. So again, I'll be the counterexample which proves this rule wrong, for the third time in a row: I quit drinking to excess entirely, after previously being someone who, as you put it, _"believed"_ in drinking to excess. Should I not have tried? Before I did, you may have told me, "drinking to excess is just who you are due to your genes and your environment".
- deleted 4y ago
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- mikkergp 4y ago
  I don’t think I’m saying anything remotely controversial so I think the correct answer here is “Ok, you’re right.” (To be honest I think this is the correct answer because I believe you to be arguing in good faith and our disagreement is subtle)
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    I don't think you're saying anything remotely _controversial_ either (unsupported is a different matter), and I haven't seen anyone offended or anything, so I hope I didn't give you that idea simply by disproving the hypotheses that "parenting doesn't matter" and the corollaries necessary for that narrowly-held hypothesis to be true.
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      Itching for a fight? I don’t think I need data because my argument is a=b because a=b. People who do t think they need to change don’t think they need to change. People who do think they need to change do think they need to change. I’m open to the possibility that Mthese categories don’t exis. They are certainly not binary and not persistent over time. A person who didn’t need to change could become a person who does think they need to change and give versa. But maybe I’m completely wrong and there’s only one type of person I. This world, the type who knows all their faults. It’s also subjective, what person A sees as one category or the other person B sees as the opposite At some point this becomes an argument of “what is free will” and I don’t think we have the time to answer that one.
      - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        Remember, the premise we're discussing is "parenting doesn't matter", so if you're the type who DOES think you need to change, this premise says, don't worry about changing, even then, because it won't matter. If you've previously engaged in corporal punishment with your kid, and you think, "maybe I shouldn't do this anymore", the "parenting doesn't matter" premise I'm arguing against says, "hey, don't worry about that! hit your kids! in fact, hit them harder if you want! it doesn't matter, because parenting doesn't matter!" so yeah, the "parenting doesn't matter" premise that most people here have said sounds ridiculous, does indeed sound ridiculous.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago

> I said if you believe in corporal punishment [...then you definitely wont ever stop engaging in it to any degree] Again, where are you getting the data for these assumptions of yours? >> Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws > And yet often they continue to engage in them Here we see the goalpost shift: *"OFTEN"* being added. If the rule isn't always true, then the advice, ("parenting doesn't matter") which depends on it always being true, is wrong. If people can, in fact, consciously better themselves, then the advice to not even try, because _we can only do what our genes and environment tell us to do_, is wrong. So again, I'll be the counterexample which proves this rule wrong, for the third time in a row: I quit drinking to excess entirely, after previously being someone who, as you put it, _"believed"_ in drinking to excess. Should I not have tried? Before I did, you may have told me, "drinking to excess is just who you are due to your genes and your environment".

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mikkergp 4y ago
I don’t think I’m saying anything remotely controversial so I think the correct answer here is “Ok, you’re right.” (To be honest I think this is the correct answer because I believe you to be arguing in good faith and our disagreement is subtle)
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  I don't think you're saying anything remotely _controversial_ either (unsupported is a different matter), and I haven't seen anyone offended or anything, so I hope I didn't give you that idea simply by disproving the hypotheses that "parenting doesn't matter" and the corollaries necessary for that narrowly-held hypothesis to be true.
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    Itching for a fight? I don’t think I need data because my argument is a=b because a=b. People who do t think they need to change don’t think they need to change. People who do think they need to change do think they need to change. I’m open to the possibility that Mthese categories don’t exis. They are certainly not binary and not persistent over time. A person who didn’t need to change could become a person who does think they need to change and give versa. But maybe I’m completely wrong and there’s only one type of person I. This world, the type who knows all their faults. It’s also subjective, what person A sees as one category or the other person B sees as the opposite At some point this becomes an argument of “what is free will” and I don’t think we have the time to answer that one.
    - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
      Remember, the premise we're discussing is "parenting doesn't matter", so if you're the type who DOES think you need to change, this premise says, don't worry about changing, even then, because it won't matter. If you've previously engaged in corporal punishment with your kid, and you think, "maybe I shouldn't do this anymore", the "parenting doesn't matter" premise I'm arguing against says, "hey, don't worry about that! hit your kids! in fact, hit them harder if you want! it doesn't matter, because parenting doesn't matter!" so yeah, the "parenting doesn't matter" premise that most people here have said sounds ridiculous, does indeed sound ridiculous.