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I think the key is the way everything is connected. Should you hit your kids? Probably not, but if you’re the type of person who believes in Corporal punishme

I think the key is the way everything is connected. Should you hit your kids? Probably not, but if you’re the type of person who believes in Corporal punishment you’re probably not the type of person who is self reflective about it. If you’re really conciencious chances are you’re probably doing the right things to improve yourself and obsessing about it isn’t going to help. If you’re not conociencious then your not opening yourself to the kind of experiences that are going to make you a better parent so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
> if you’re the type of person who believes in Corporal punishment you’re probably not the type of person who is self reflective about it. Where are you getting your data from for all these assumptions you're throwing out? Like, one could say "If you're the type of person who swears a lot, you're probably not the type of person who is self reflective about it" with the exact same amount of confidence, yet be just as wrong (I myself volunteer to be the example which disproves the rule). Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws (before you potentially say that anyone with a flaw won't perceive it as one, I again volunteer to be the counterexample which disproves such a hypothetic rule)
- mikkergp 4y ago
  I didn’t say do you accidentally engage in corporal punishment, I said if you believe in corporal punishment, implying a difference between a flaw and a belief not shared by all that may still damage a child. Sure you can change your beliefs but it’s not like a flaw that your self reflective about. > Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws And yet often they continue to engage in them. I don’t know that we’re disagreeing all that much except perhaps on the definition of “control”. I don’t think most people have the self discipline to control their own behavior so much as influence it, but maybe that’s just one of my flaws.
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    > I said if you believe in corporal punishment [...then you definitely wont ever stop engaging in it to any degree] Again, where are you getting the data for these assumptions of yours? >> Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws > And yet often they continue to engage in them Here we see the goalpost shift: *"OFTEN"* being added. If the rule isn't always true, then the advice, ("parenting doesn't matter") which depends on it always being true, is wrong. If people can, in fact, consciously better themselves, then the advice to not even try, because _we can only do what our genes and environment tell us to do_, is wrong. So again, I'll be the counterexample which proves this rule wrong, for the third time in a row: I quit drinking to excess entirely, after previously being someone who, as you put it, _"believed"_ in drinking to excess. Should I not have tried? Before I did, you may have told me, "drinking to excess is just who you are due to your genes and your environment".
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      I don’t think I’m saying anything remotely controversial so I think the correct answer here is “Ok, you’re right.” (To be honest I think this is the correct answer because I believe you to be arguing in good faith and our disagreement is subtle)
      - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        I don't think you're saying anything remotely _controversial_ either (unsupported is a different matter), and I haven't seen anyone offended or anything, so I hope I didn't give you that idea simply by disproving the hypotheses that "parenting doesn't matter" and the corollaries necessary for that narrowly-held hypothesis to be true.
        mikkergp 4y ago
        Itching for a fight? I don’t think I need data because my argument is a=b because a=b. People who do t think they need to change don’t think they need to change. People who do think they need to change do think they need to change. I’m open to the possibility that Mthese categories don’t exis. They are certainly not binary and not persistent over time. A person who didn’t need to change could become a person who does think they need to change and give versa. But maybe I’m completely wrong and there’s only one type of person I. This world, the type who knows all their faults. It’s also subjective, what person A sees as one category or the other person B sees as the opposite At some point this becomes an argument of “what is free will” and I don’t think we have the time to answer that one.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago

> if you’re the type of person who believes in Corporal punishment you’re probably not the type of person who is self reflective about it. Where are you getting your data from for all these assumptions you're throwing out? Like, one could say "If you're the type of person who swears a lot, you're probably not the type of person who is self reflective about it" with the exact same amount of confidence, yet be just as wrong (I myself volunteer to be the example which disproves the rule). Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws (before you potentially say that anyone with a flaw won't perceive it as one, I again volunteer to be the counterexample which disproves such a hypothetic rule)

mikkergp 4y ago
I didn’t say do you accidentally engage in corporal punishment, I said if you believe in corporal punishment, implying a difference between a flaw and a belief not shared by all that may still damage a child. Sure you can change your beliefs but it’s not like a flaw that your self reflective about. > Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws And yet often they continue to engage in them. I don’t know that we’re disagreeing all that much except perhaps on the definition of “control”. I don’t think most people have the self discipline to control their own behavior so much as influence it, but maybe that’s just one of my flaws.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  > I said if you believe in corporal punishment [...then you definitely wont ever stop engaging in it to any degree] Again, where are you getting the data for these assumptions of yours? >> Often people are MOST self-reflective about their perceived flaws > And yet often they continue to engage in them Here we see the goalpost shift: *"OFTEN"* being added. If the rule isn't always true, then the advice, ("parenting doesn't matter") which depends on it always being true, is wrong. If people can, in fact, consciously better themselves, then the advice to not even try, because _we can only do what our genes and environment tell us to do_, is wrong. So again, I'll be the counterexample which proves this rule wrong, for the third time in a row: I quit drinking to excess entirely, after previously being someone who, as you put it, _"believed"_ in drinking to excess. Should I not have tried? Before I did, you may have told me, "drinking to excess is just who you are due to your genes and your environment".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    I don’t think I’m saying anything remotely controversial so I think the correct answer here is “Ok, you’re right.” (To be honest I think this is the correct answer because I believe you to be arguing in good faith and our disagreement is subtle)
    - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
      I don't think you're saying anything remotely _controversial_ either (unsupported is a different matter), and I haven't seen anyone offended or anything, so I hope I didn't give you that idea simply by disproving the hypotheses that "parenting doesn't matter" and the corollaries necessary for that narrowly-held hypothesis to be true.
      - mikkergp 4y ago
        Itching for a fight? I don’t think I need data because my argument is a=b because a=b. People who do t think they need to change don’t think they need to change. People who do think they need to change do think they need to change. I’m open to the possibility that Mthese categories don’t exis. They are certainly not binary and not persistent over time. A person who didn’t need to change could become a person who does think they need to change and give versa. But maybe I’m completely wrong and there’s only one type of person I. This world, the type who knows all their faults. It’s also subjective, what person A sees as one category or the other person B sees as the opposite At some point this becomes an argument of “what is free will” and I don’t think we have the time to answer that one.