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This is one of the reasons why I love to work from home. I'm not beholden to company policy that seeks to improve productivity at the expense of how I choose to

This is one of the reasons why I love to work from home. I'm not beholden to company policy that seeks to improve productivity at the expense of how I choose to structure my day. Maybe I eat at my desk so I can spend that hour lunch break with my kid in the afternoon. Maybe I'll take a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day because I didn't sleep well the previous night. I'm so glad to be rid of these inflexible, petty rules that are for the average, not the individual.

feet 4y ago
This. I eat at my desk because I want that break time to do something else that actually matters to me and furthers my own personal goals
- sky-kedge0749 4y ago
  In some places this can develop into the expectation that everyone eats while working at their desk every day. You're not shifting the free time, you're just losing it. Then anyone who announces "okay, off to a cafe, see you in an hour" is seen as slacking.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Yes. I see this law as a way to protect employees with less agency. Nobody will actually enforce it, but employee will know that eating at a normal pace and taking a breather is an option.
wutbrodo 4y ago
IMO the bulk of this is due to workplace culture, not being remote. Naturally being at home adds some logistical flexibility, but the bulk of the gap is between companies who treat their employees like toddlers and those who actually respect them as adults (see also: dress code for non-customer-facing work, overly-fixed hours, etc). You can see this distinction in the slow creep of employee-monitoring software over the last couple of years, where being remote doesn't save you (though I would guess that this is unlikely to take hold). On the flipside, there are workplaces who avoid this form of contempt for their employees without being remote. My in-office job at eg Google had the majority of the flexibility you're describing, including the naps! The other companies I've been at didn't have the same resources as the Googleplex, but still trusted me to understand best what determined my productivity. Perhaps I've been spoiled, but I truly can't imagine working somewhere that was so openly disrespectful of my ability to do my job effectively; I'd feel like a McCashier or something. On the axis of workaholism, this French law and, say, Goldman Sachs may be on opposite sides of the spectrum. But on the axes of treating employees like children, they're two sides of the same coin.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Disagree on that law treating employee as children. It treats employers as such. « Oh really company? you can’t have some common sense decency in regard to lunch? Alright, I will spell it out for you » From the worker side, nobody will come to say anything if you decide to put grease on your keyboard and stain your shirt during lunch time. You are free to do so.
  - rfrey 4y ago
    Companies aren't people, legal fictions aside. They're machines with a fitness function which minimizes a dollar/production function. They can't have "common sense".
    - dopidopHN 4y ago
      Exactly. Hence the much needed hand holding of laws and regulation to help their cost optimizing function see the light of reality.
- cafard 4y ago
  A programmer I know worked in Germany for a while when younger. He did not mention any laws, but said that it never occurred to anyone to eat at the desk--it just wasn't done.
dopidopHN 4y ago
This article is clickbaity. no lunch police will come knock at the door once you start eating your salad. It’s more about forcing workplace to provide a dedicated space with a table, a fridge … the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch. Establish rapport with your coworker, or focus on your cold pasta salad to reach mindfulness. If you want to save 2min40s and develop a ulcers, you are free to do so.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Exactly. I often visit offices in France and people do eat at their desks there sometimes. There is no salad police. Going out to a nearby restaurant is big though. And I love doing it if there's time. It really makes the lunch break an actual break.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  He's not going to get ulcers. He works from home and isn't beholden to corporate rules. That said, a nice kitchen is nice.
- throw10920 4y ago
  The article isn't clickbaity in the slightest - it's illegal to eat your lunch at your desk in France. That's a fact. Something illegal is still illegal. Relying on non-enforcement at some companies is absolutely absurd - not only is enforcement of something like this going to vary (so some poor unlucky souls won't have the option at all), but you open yourself up to selective enforcement. It feel blindingly obvious that the correct thing to do is to remove this ridiculous law, and then, if you want "the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch" - then legislate that, not some absurd illiberal law that removes a choice that is very desirable for some people. I say this as someone who sometimes wants to eat lunch at my desk so I can get off earlier, and other times will go out to eat with co-workers and enjoy their company. There's no reason to not give me that choice. > One female labor inspector noted in her report of 1901 that women saw the enforcement of the law as "tyrannical." Tyrannical indeed.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago

feet 4y ago

This. I eat at my desk because I want that break time to do something else that actually matters to me and furthers my own personal goals

sky-kedge0749 4y ago
In some places this can develop into the expectation that everyone eats while working at their desk every day. You're not shifting the free time, you're just losing it. Then anyone who announces "okay, off to a cafe, see you in an hour" is seen as slacking.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Yes. I see this law as a way to protect employees with less agency. Nobody will actually enforce it, but employee will know that eating at a normal pace and taking a breather is an option.

wutbrodo 4y ago

IMO the bulk of this is due to workplace culture, not being remote. Naturally being at home adds some logistical flexibility, but the bulk of the gap is between companies who treat their employees like toddlers and those who actually respect them as adults (see also: dress code for non-customer-facing work, overly-fixed hours, etc). You can see this distinction in the slow creep of employee-monitoring software over the last couple of years, where being remote doesn't save you (though I would guess that this is unlikely to take hold). On the flipside, there are workplaces who avoid this form of contempt for their employees without being remote. My in-office job at eg Google had the majority of the flexibility you're describing, including the naps! The other companies I've been at didn't have the same resources as the Googleplex, but still trusted me to understand best what determined my productivity. Perhaps I've been spoiled, but I truly can't imagine working somewhere that was so openly disrespectful of my ability to do my job effectively; I'd feel like a McCashier or something. On the axis of workaholism, this French law and, say, Goldman Sachs may be on opposite sides of the spectrum. But on the axes of treating employees like children, they're two sides of the same coin.

dopidopHN 4y ago
Disagree on that law treating employee as children. It treats employers as such. « Oh really company? you can’t have some common sense decency in regard to lunch? Alright, I will spell it out for you » From the worker side, nobody will come to say anything if you decide to put grease on your keyboard and stain your shirt during lunch time. You are free to do so.
- rfrey 4y ago
  Companies aren't people, legal fictions aside. They're machines with a fitness function which minimizes a dollar/production function. They can't have "common sense".
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Exactly. Hence the much needed hand holding of laws and regulation to help their cost optimizing function see the light of reality.
cafard 4y ago
A programmer I know worked in Germany for a while when younger. He did not mention any laws, but said that it never occurred to anyone to eat at the desk--it just wasn't done.

dopidopHN 4y ago

This article is clickbaity. no lunch police will come knock at the door once you start eating your salad. It’s more about forcing workplace to provide a dedicated space with a table, a fridge … the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch. Establish rapport with your coworker, or focus on your cold pasta salad to reach mindfulness. If you want to save 2min40s and develop a ulcers, you are free to do so.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Exactly. I often visit offices in France and people do eat at their desks there sometimes. There is no salad police. Going out to a nearby restaurant is big though. And I love doing it if there's time. It really makes the lunch break an actual break.
fartcannon 4y ago
He's not going to get ulcers. He works from home and isn't beholden to corporate rules. That said, a nice kitchen is nice.
throw10920 4y ago
The article isn't clickbaity in the slightest - it's illegal to eat your lunch at your desk in France. That's a fact. Something illegal is still illegal. Relying on non-enforcement at some companies is absolutely absurd - not only is enforcement of something like this going to vary (so some poor unlucky souls won't have the option at all), but you open yourself up to selective enforcement. It feel blindingly obvious that the correct thing to do is to remove this ridiculous law, and then, if you want "the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch" - then legislate that, not some absurd illiberal law that removes a choice that is very desirable for some people. I say this as someone who sometimes wants to eat lunch at my desk so I can get off earlier, and other times will go out to eat with co-workers and enjoy their company. There's no reason to not give me that choice. > One female labor inspector noted in her report of 1901 that women saw the enforcement of the law as "tyrannical." Tyrannical indeed.
- dopidopHN 4y ago