5 ms·

It's professinalized American-style fundraising. It's an accepted part of US culture. The whole system of US politics works like that. People in the rest of the

It's professinalized American-style fundraising. It's an accepted part of US culture. The whole system of US politics works like that. People in the rest of the world often don't understand that. https://campaignsandelections.com/industry-news/how-american-style-fundraising-is-changing-campaigns-abroad/ https://campaignsandelections.com/industry-news/how-american...

akolbe 4y ago
The sad thing is that it seems to be people who are actually poor who are most affected by this kind of sales pitch. As is mentioned on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/Archive_6#Shame_on_you_WMF!_Shame https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/Archive_6#S...! (you have to re-add the exclamation mark which HN breaks off for the link to work) the following was posted on the English Wikipedia Help Desk during the big 2021 end-of-year fundraiser: ---------- Dear "Good Folks" At Wikipedia, First, allow me to sincerely express my gratitude for being one of the finest Web services provided. THANK YOU to eacxh volunteer that unselfishlessly donates their time to Helping make our world a better & more knowledgable/informed place to live. Second, While I am a very low income Senior [ live in Gov't. H.U.D. Apt.], I do still try to contribute to certain causes. Wikipedia is 1 such Group. I believe that I have given Wikipedia small donations for about 3 years now. While I do not have much to give, It is important that You know we appreciate the great work you undertake. I do, respectfully, need to point out 1 "process" that Wikipedia implements that "disturbs/upsets" me. I just, accidentally, got rolled over to Wikipedia on a matter I am researcing. The Wikipedia "overlay" writing asking for Donations said this was 4th time You have asked me. THAT "NOTICE" MADE ME FEEL VERY "GUILTY/BAD"....... Right now, I have $18.00 in my bank account ! That's It ! Soon, I will get my only source of Income [ a monthly Social Security Check] & will try to make a donation at that time. While I do not mind your "Reminding" me that Wikipedia can use Donations, Please quit stating this is 1st, 2nd, 3rd time......you have aqsked ! Thank You & Best Wishes, Thomas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.33.228.209 (talk) 00:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC) ---------- Diff link: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&diff=prev&oldid=1060190990 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_de... A longstanding Wikipedia admin (from South Africa) commented: "Taking money from Thomas and then making him feel guilty for not giving more, this emotional blackmail (dare I call it extortion?) is truly despicable! You owe all the Thomases an apology and a full refund. This banner campaign is doing a lot of reputational damage, shut it down. Until now I was proud to be a Wikipedian. Dodger67 (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2021 (UTC)" The fundraising is just getting a bit too professional – finding out what triggers people into giving (lots of A/B tests). Of course it would be okay to launch desperate-sounding messages if Wikipedia were actually short of money, but this is about maximum revenue growth for its own sake – which works best if people remain unaware of the Wikimedia Foundation's actual financial situation. Keeping people in the dark was not the founding ideal of Wikipedia.
- akolbe 4y ago
  For some historical perspective, this is what the Wikimedia Foundation VP of Engineering and Product Development said about Wikipedia's money needs in 2013, less than 10 years ago: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-March/124621.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-March... "WMF has operated in the past without staffing and with very minimal staffing, so clearly it's _possible_ to host a high traffic website on an absolute shoestring. But I would argue that an endowment, to actually be worthwhile, should aim for a significantly higher base level of minimal annual operating expenses, more in the order of magnitude of $10M+/year, to ensure not only bare survival, but actual sustainability of Wikimedia's mission." $10M+/year! Even if you double that to $20M/year, the Wikimedia Foundation has about twenty times that in the bank today, and factoring in the interest this money earns, as well as tens of millions in planned gifts already lined up (people leaving them money in their wills), they could basically run Wikipedia in perpetuity without ever asking for another penny. Instead, they now have an official revenue target of nearly $150 million (and are on course to exceed that by tens of millions, as usual). https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikimedia_Foundation_2nd_Quarter_2021-2022_Tuning_Session_-_Advancement.pdf&page=6 https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikimed...
- Tamarini 4y ago
  They hired professional fundraisers who took one look at the web property that is Wikipedia and thought: Yeehaw!!! This is somthing we can work with. To a fundraiser, NOT raising the maxium amount possible by any means would be unprofessional. It's what they're paid to do. Management will always be grateful for the extra money and think of a way to spend it.
the_biot 4y ago
That's true, but it certainly doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. There is no excuse for what they're doing, it's just plain grabbing money because they can, as much as they can, on the backs of an army of unpaid volunteers with good intentions.
- akolbe 4y ago
  Especially given that they're getting people in India to earnestly beseech their compatriots to give and save Wikipedia: https://twitter.com/aakash_dwivedi/status/1535621172158529536 https://twitter.com/aakash_dwivedi/status/153562117215852953... https://twitter.com/darkenetic/status/1535582860459278336 https://twitter.com/darkenetic/status/1535582860459278336 https://twitter.com/2030chintu/status/1534500833798156290 https://twitter.com/2030chintu/status/1534500833798156290 "wiki is dying out since it relies on donations and no ads or anything. Theyve had a donation drop and theyre asking for donations to help run the site Wikipedia has been there maybe ever since the internet, we cant let it die out Please donate if you can #SaveWikipedia" "Wikipedia that has proved to be a immense source of knowledge over a period of time is under financial crises, in order to sustain it needs financial support....#savewikipedia" It's the sort of mass manipulation Goebbels would have been proud of.

akolbe 4y ago

The sad thing is that it seems to be people who are actually poor who are most affected by this kind of sales pitch. As is mentioned on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/Archive_6#Shame_on_you_WMF!_Shame https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/Archive_6#S...! (you have to re-add the exclamation mark which HN breaks off for the link to work) the following was posted on the English Wikipedia Help Desk during the big 2021 end-of-year fundraiser: ---------- Dear "Good Folks" At Wikipedia, First, allow me to sincerely express my gratitude for being one of the finest Web services provided. THANK YOU to eacxh volunteer that unselfishlessly donates their time to Helping make our world a better & more knowledgable/informed place to live. Second, While I am a very low income Senior [ live in Gov't. H.U.D. Apt.], I do still try to contribute to certain causes. Wikipedia is 1 such Group. I believe that I have given Wikipedia small donations for about 3 years now. While I do not have much to give, It is important that You know we appreciate the great work you undertake. I do, respectfully, need to point out 1 "process" that Wikipedia implements that "disturbs/upsets" me. I just, accidentally, got rolled over to Wikipedia on a matter I am researcing. The Wikipedia "overlay" writing asking for Donations said this was 4th time You have asked me. THAT "NOTICE" MADE ME FEEL VERY "GUILTY/BAD"....... Right now, I have $18.00 in my bank account ! That's It ! Soon, I will get my only source of Income [ a monthly Social Security Check] & will try to make a donation at that time. While I do not mind your "Reminding" me that Wikipedia can use Donations, Please quit stating this is 1st, 2nd, 3rd time......you have aqsked ! Thank You & Best Wishes, Thomas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.33.228.209 (talk) 00:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC) ---------- Diff link: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&diff=prev&oldid=1060190990 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_de... A longstanding Wikipedia admin (from South Africa) commented: "Taking money from Thomas and then making him feel guilty for not giving more, this emotional blackmail (dare I call it extortion?) is truly despicable! You owe all the Thomases an apology and a full refund. This banner campaign is doing a lot of reputational damage, shut it down. Until now I was proud to be a Wikipedian. Dodger67 (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2021 (UTC)" The fundraising is just getting a bit too professional – finding out what triggers people into giving (lots of A/B tests). Of course it would be okay to launch desperate-sounding messages if Wikipedia were actually short of money, but this is about maximum revenue growth for its own sake – which works best if people remain unaware of the Wikimedia Foundation's actual financial situation. Keeping people in the dark was not the founding ideal of Wikipedia.

akolbe 4y ago
For some historical perspective, this is what the Wikimedia Foundation VP of Engineering and Product Development said about Wikipedia's money needs in 2013, less than 10 years ago: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-March/124621.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-March... "WMF has operated in the past without staffing and with very minimal staffing, so clearly it's _possible_ to host a high traffic website on an absolute shoestring. But I would argue that an endowment, to actually be worthwhile, should aim for a significantly higher base level of minimal annual operating expenses, more in the order of magnitude of $10M+/year, to ensure not only bare survival, but actual sustainability of Wikimedia's mission." $10M+/year! Even if you double that to $20M/year, the Wikimedia Foundation has about twenty times that in the bank today, and factoring in the interest this money earns, as well as tens of millions in planned gifts already lined up (people leaving them money in their wills), they could basically run Wikipedia in perpetuity without ever asking for another penny. Instead, they now have an official revenue target of nearly $150 million (and are on course to exceed that by tens of millions, as usual). https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikimedia_Foundation_2nd_Quarter_2021-2022_Tuning_Session_-_Advancement.pdf&page=6 https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Wikimed...
Tamarini 4y ago
They hired professional fundraisers who took one look at the web property that is Wikipedia and thought: Yeehaw!!! This is somthing we can work with. To a fundraiser, NOT raising the maxium amount possible by any means would be unprofessional. It's what they're paid to do. Management will always be grateful for the extra money and think of a way to spend it.

the_biot 4y ago

That's true, but it certainly doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. There is no excuse for what they're doing, it's just plain grabbing money because they can, as much as they can, on the backs of an army of unpaid volunteers with good intentions.

akolbe 4y ago
Especially given that they're getting people in India to earnestly beseech their compatriots to give and save Wikipedia: https://twitter.com/aakash_dwivedi/status/1535621172158529536 https://twitter.com/aakash_dwivedi/status/153562117215852953... https://twitter.com/darkenetic/status/1535582860459278336 https://twitter.com/darkenetic/status/1535582860459278336 https://twitter.com/2030chintu/status/1534500833798156290 https://twitter.com/2030chintu/status/1534500833798156290 "wiki is dying out since it relies on donations and no ads or anything. Theyve had a donation drop and theyre asking for donations to help run the site Wikipedia has been there maybe ever since the internet, we cant let it die out Please donate if you can #SaveWikipedia" "Wikipedia that has proved to be a immense source of knowledge over a period of time is under financial crises, in order to sustain it needs financial support....#savewikipedia" It's the sort of mass manipulation Goebbels would have been proud of.