4 ms·

Jack Dorsey on his “most important contribution to the internet”

23 points by fumblebee 4y ago

prohobo 4y ago
This looks quite promising. I'm not sure I understand it very well yet, but essentially it's meant to replace custodial API backends with a decentralized network that's capable of sharing data with participating apps through standardized data formats (schema.org)? Does this have any mechanisms for safely storing sensitive data on the network?
- he_is_legend 4y ago
  Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me - so i put various bits of my preferences and identity data into a personal data silo, and use that data silo to connect to various web services. Next thing you know each service will add a set of permissions which they can request and you can allow or deny and thus "keep you safe", until after a while every service starts asking for more and more permissions and more and more of your personal data. And they've already got you locked in by storing all your emails or photos or whatever, so you agree and they just get all your data. And nothing was solved. The answer to walled-garden internet institutions isn't amalgamating all your personal data into one database so the walled-garden vendors can more easily grab that data. It's decentralisation and diversity (as in more choice) of vendor. Once again a Silicon Valley / venture capitalist darling fails to understand what data privacy means, and just bundle up their latest data grab in a shiny marketing package.
  - heckerhut 4y ago
    Agree with your sentiment. If we don’t change the underlying incentive structure nothing will change.
  - thenoblesunfish 4y ago
    This is one of the things I was wondering about. How is it enforced that whichever third party app I want to connect to must store data (in some standardized format) on my personal DWN?
  - prohobo 4y ago
    Go further: services will offer features in exchange for more data. Your worth could be tied to how private you are with your data... ie. more data hoarding = more valuable target. This creates an incentive structure for users to hoard their data, only selling it to their most important services, and services themselves will attempt to create features that make providing that data worth it. The reason people blindly say ok to every permission popup is because there's no incentive to say no. So yeah, your concern makes sense now but it might not in a "web5" world. I can guarantee any app saying "please give us all your data to use this" would get btfo'd very quickly in a world where people can use their data as leverage. Technology influences behavior and mindset, and I think this particular idea might be a good influence. It's certainly better than what we have now where every service simply takes all your data or buys it from other companies. My primary concern is data integrity; is storing the data on the global network good enough to disincentivize apps from scraping local user data with their own tools? What would stop an app from using the protocol and also maintaining its own database? Is that actually part of the deal? For example: Bring data from other apps to this one, and you can access a set of features. This app will now mine new data to put back into the network?
k__ 4y ago
so, web5 is basically ceramic.network?
ig-88ms 4y ago
Look at me, give me VC money, or at least clout, for my pipe dream!
fredski42 4y ago
Isn’t this just sir Tim Berner-Lee’s SOLID idea?
- browningstreet 4y ago
  Does SOLID have any traction? My feeling is “no”.
dmarchand90 4y ago
I honestly am very pessimistic of such efforts succeeding. Now there is a massive, profitable, industry designed around harvesting data. Why would any of the major players work towards any ends that threatens their wealth. Indeed, I suspect that there will be ferocious resistance, perhaps sabotage, towards such technologies. The only way i see this perhaps working is via governmental, rather than private market forces. Though web5 may indeed be useful both in the implementation of any such law, as well as providing motivation for its enactment.
r721 4y ago
Another discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697296

23 points by fumblebee 4y ago

This looks quite promising. I'm not sure I understand it very well yet, but essentially it's meant to replace custodial API backends with a decentralized network that's capable of sharing data with participating apps through standardized data formats (schema.org)? Does this have any mechanisms for safely storing sensitive data on the network?

he_is_legend 4y ago
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me - so i put various bits of my preferences and identity data into a personal data silo, and use that data silo to connect to various web services. Next thing you know each service will add a set of permissions which they can request and you can allow or deny and thus "keep you safe", until after a while every service starts asking for more and more permissions and more and more of your personal data. And they've already got you locked in by storing all your emails or photos or whatever, so you agree and they just get all your data. And nothing was solved. The answer to walled-garden internet institutions isn't amalgamating all your personal data into one database so the walled-garden vendors can more easily grab that data. It's decentralisation and diversity (as in more choice) of vendor. Once again a Silicon Valley / venture capitalist darling fails to understand what data privacy means, and just bundle up their latest data grab in a shiny marketing package.
- heckerhut 4y ago
  Agree with your sentiment. If we don’t change the underlying incentive structure nothing will change.
- thenoblesunfish 4y ago
  This is one of the things I was wondering about. How is it enforced that whichever third party app I want to connect to must store data (in some standardized format) on my personal DWN?
- prohobo 4y ago
  Go further: services will offer features in exchange for more data. Your worth could be tied to how private you are with your data... ie. more data hoarding = more valuable target. This creates an incentive structure for users to hoard their data, only selling it to their most important services, and services themselves will attempt to create features that make providing that data worth it. The reason people blindly say ok to every permission popup is because there's no incentive to say no. So yeah, your concern makes sense now but it might not in a "web5" world. I can guarantee any app saying "please give us all your data to use this" would get btfo'd very quickly in a world where people can use their data as leverage. Technology influences behavior and mindset, and I think this particular idea might be a good influence. It's certainly better than what we have now where every service simply takes all your data or buys it from other companies. My primary concern is data integrity; is storing the data on the global network good enough to disincentivize apps from scraping local user data with their own tools? What would stop an app from using the protocol and also maintaining its own database? Is that actually part of the deal? For example: Bring data from other apps to this one, and you can access a set of features. This app will now mine new data to put back into the network?

k__ 4y ago

so, web5 is basically ceramic.network?

ig-88ms 4y ago

Look at me, give me VC money, or at least clout, for my pipe dream!

fredski42 4y ago

Isn’t this just sir Tim Berner-Lee’s SOLID idea?

browningstreet 4y ago
Does SOLID have any traction? My feeling is “no”.

dmarchand90 4y ago

I honestly am very pessimistic of such efforts succeeding. Now there is a massive, profitable, industry designed around harvesting data. Why would any of the major players work towards any ends that threatens their wealth. Indeed, I suspect that there will be ferocious resistance, perhaps sabotage, towards such technologies. The only way i see this perhaps working is via governmental, rather than private market forces. Though web5 may indeed be useful both in the implementation of any such law, as well as providing motivation for its enactment.

r721 4y ago

Another discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697296