4 ms·

You only covered the "like them" aspect, what about the "fit a pattern that appeals to them" part? Chinese and Indians fall into "model minority" stereotypes,

by enjalot 15y ago

You only covered the "like them" aspect, what about the "fit a pattern that appeals to them" part? Chinese and Indians fall into "model minority" stereotypes, which have their own set of evils (you are X so you must be good at Y is it's own kind of dehumanization). So someone making a gut call might have underlying prejudices for Asians and against blacks. In other words, when is the last time a white person has crossed the street to avoid a Chinese/Indian person walking towards them. Ask a black guy when the last time that happened. I think there are also many cultural differences at play, as well as people's perceptions of those cultural differences. Startups take their own kind of crazy, and it really helps to be surrounded by people that tell you its ok to be crazy or are at least as crazy as you. And if you are going to be around crazy people, you will probably want to know that they are the same kind of cazy :) Being from different cultures (or assuming you are) will make it harder to sense this.

philwelch 15y ago
You know what immigrant population, statistically, is even more successful than the stereotypical "model minority" Chinese and Indians? Immigrants from actual Africa.
- Rariel 15y ago
  Yes and they often try to distance themselves from African Americans. But what are the actual numbers of African Immigrants in the US compared to Asian/Indian? Even second and third generation. There are larger numbers in Europe I'm sure. Edit: I'll answer my own question, in 2008 alone African immigrants only accounted for 3% Asian immigrants (which includes India) accounted for 53%. I'm sure that's not a recent trend.
- rdl 15y ago
  How many of them are white African immigrants (i.e. from RSA, Rhodesia, etc.), or are from Arab North Africa (Egypt), though?
  - riffraff 15y ago
    why the downvotes? This seems a reaonable question to ask. In a more general form, it would be nice to hsve some reference to the statistics on this since it's very interesting.
  - omnivore 15y ago
    Nil.
    - TiffanyPintor 15y ago
      roelof botha, elon musk....not nil.
jhamburger 15y ago
Exactly, it's an issue of prejudice more than racism- I would bet that a white american with a thick southern accent would probably face more of an uphill battle than any of the above.
Rariel 15y ago
"In other words, when is the last time a white person has crossed the street to avoid a Chinese/Indian person walking towards them. Ask a black guy when the last time that happened." What does this have to do with the model minority point? Also I'd say that asians and indians are the majority in tech, at least in my experience. My husband is a Mechanical Engineer from Cal and the vast majority of his classmates were Asian and Indian, very few whites and people of other ethnicity.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
In that case, why do Indians/Chinese "fit a pattern that appeals to them" and Blacks do not? I focused on "like them" because that's a lower entropy theory than "fit a pattern" - it's a claim that VC's thought process is x -> cultural_distance(self, x). "Fit a pattern" is basically just an assertion that VC's have a table of values in their mind, { "asian" : +1, "white" : 0, "black" : -1 } without explaining either where it came from or how we even know it exists. It's certainly very difficult to disprove, but only because it tells us very little. Ask a black guy when the last time that happened. Well, I'm a white guy, and the last time it happened to me was Tues. This happens to me fairly frequently when I'm in the US.
- roguecoder 15y ago
  Because the perceptions of African-Americans are still conditioned by the economic devastation inflicted by 242 years of slavery, followed by an additional 103 of legal disenfranchisement and discrimination, followed by only 57 years a criminal justice and militarized police force that continues to inflict disproportionate harm on (yes, even innocent) African-American men living in the areas where until 57 years ago were the only place they could safely live. History: without it, life is confusing. On the other hand, other non-European minorities were excluded from the US all together, leaving less time for stereotypes to calcify. The IT industry itself has a strong presence in India and China, so cross-pollination is logical. It has not had a similar expansion into Africa, or we might see similar growth of African entrepreneurs.
  - mc32 15y ago
    A bit pedantic, but there are a few African‡ startups wich have garnered attention from the Valley --most form South Africa though (Fundamo, Thawte, etc. A). Google has opened a tech incubator too. [http://www.google.co.za/intl/en/umbono/index.html http://www.google.co.za/intl/en/umbono/index.html] ‡Maybe you mean black Africans, but blacks are not the only Africans -there are south Asians, whites, Chinese, Arab, etc.
- vannevar 15y ago
  "...how we even know it exists." This is not a subject where we have to rely on speculation or personal experience. We know widespread racial bias exists because of solid scientific evidence accumulated over years of study. An example and some history: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.ht... . There is no reason to assume VCs are immune.

by enjalot 15y ago

philwelch 15y ago

You know what immigrant population, statistically, is even more successful than the stereotypical "model minority" Chinese and Indians? Immigrants from actual Africa.

Rariel 15y ago
Yes and they often try to distance themselves from African Americans. But what are the actual numbers of African Immigrants in the US compared to Asian/Indian? Even second and third generation. There are larger numbers in Europe I'm sure. Edit: I'll answer my own question, in 2008 alone African immigrants only accounted for 3% Asian immigrants (which includes India) accounted for 53%. I'm sure that's not a recent trend.
rdl 15y ago
How many of them are white African immigrants (i.e. from RSA, Rhodesia, etc.), or are from Arab North Africa (Egypt), though?
- riffraff 15y ago
  why the downvotes? This seems a reaonable question to ask. In a more general form, it would be nice to hsve some reference to the statistics on this since it's very interesting.
- omnivore 15y ago
  Nil.
  - TiffanyPintor 15y ago
    roelof botha, elon musk....not nil.

jhamburger 15y ago

Exactly, it's an issue of prejudice more than racism- I would bet that a white american with a thick southern accent would probably face more of an uphill battle than any of the above.

Rariel 15y ago

"In other words, when is the last time a white person has crossed the street to avoid a Chinese/Indian person walking towards them. Ask a black guy when the last time that happened." What does this have to do with the model minority point? Also I'd say that asians and indians are the majority in tech, at least in my experience. My husband is a Mechanical Engineer from Cal and the vast majority of his classmates were Asian and Indian, very few whites and people of other ethnicity.

yummyfajitas 15y ago

In that case, why do Indians/Chinese "fit a pattern that appeals to them" and Blacks do not? I focused on "like them" because that's a lower entropy theory than "fit a pattern" - it's a claim that VC's thought process is x -> cultural_distance(self, x). "Fit a pattern" is basically just an assertion that VC's have a table of values in their mind, { "asian" : +1, "white" : 0, "black" : -1 } without explaining either where it came from or how we even know it exists. It's certainly very difficult to disprove, but only because it tells us very little. Ask a black guy when the last time that happened. Well, I'm a white guy, and the last time it happened to me was Tues. This happens to me fairly frequently when I'm in the US.

roguecoder 15y ago
Because the perceptions of African-Americans are still conditioned by the economic devastation inflicted by 242 years of slavery, followed by an additional 103 of legal disenfranchisement and discrimination, followed by only 57 years a criminal justice and militarized police force that continues to inflict disproportionate harm on (yes, even innocent) African-American men living in the areas where until 57 years ago were the only place they could safely live. History: without it, life is confusing. On the other hand, other non-European minorities were excluded from the US all together, leaving less time for stereotypes to calcify. The IT industry itself has a strong presence in India and China, so cross-pollination is logical. It has not had a similar expansion into Africa, or we might see similar growth of African entrepreneurs.
- mc32 15y ago
  A bit pedantic, but there are a few African‡ startups wich have garnered attention from the Valley --most form South Africa though (Fundamo, Thawte, etc. A). Google has opened a tech incubator too. [http://www.google.co.za/intl/en/umbono/index.html http://www.google.co.za/intl/en/umbono/index.html] ‡Maybe you mean black Africans, but blacks are not the only Africans -there are south Asians, whites, Chinese, Arab, etc.
vannevar 15y ago
"...how we even know it exists." This is not a subject where we have to rely on speculation or personal experience. We know widespread racial bias exists because of solid scientific evidence accumulated over years of study. An example and some history: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.ht... . There is no reason to assume VCs are immune.