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Because bribery has ensured that regulators and regulation got strangled in the US. This has been a multi-decade effort, eg Regan's “Most Terrifying Words – ‘I’

by jgeada 4y ago

Because bribery has ensured that regulators and regulation got strangled in the US. This has been a multi-decade effort, eg Regan's “Most Terrifying Words – ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” propaganda meme etc. There is a reason that what is called blatant bribery pretty much anywhere else in the civilized world is called "free speech" and "lobbying" in the US, without any intended or perceived irony or sarcasm. Absent regulation, rules are defined by those in power for their convenience rather than for the public's benefit.

mistrial9 4y ago
us citizen not a lawyer -- the problems you state are so obvious, that they ALSO have been a multi-decade effort, to mitigate or control, with real rules, that are enforced. Specifically so that shrill, not-on-your-side people cannot dismiss the Entire System in a few words, as here. I am not a fan, nor making excuses, but its not constructive to oversimplify important, multi-step mechanisms
- southerntofu 4y ago
  > they ALSO have been a multi-decade effort, to mitigate or control, with real rules, that are enforced Source? In the global north, most regulatory bodies are understaffed and underbudget and cannot possibly even try to protect the public from vicious corporations. With the neoliberal wave of the 80s, there's been a merger of State and Corporations interests (what Mussolini called "corporatism") and millions of people have died as a result: from poverty, from work "accidents", from harmful chemicals advertised as medication, from industry pollution... The people in the regulatory bodies are friendly with the corporate people. It's not uncommon for these bloodsuckers to jump from one field to the other and back again in about a decade. To give one small example that's familiar with HN people: all of silicon valley hosts (GAFAM) were illegal by french privacy law (passed in 1978) yet they were all operating luxury offices in Paris and bribing engineers to come deceive/exploit the public. I'm not a fan of defending defeatist worldview, but to believe that the State is here to protect people from corporations is an oversimplification. The regulation, corporate, and State people all come from the same higher classes, all went to the same schools, and eat in the same fancy restaurants in the same bourgeois districts. We lower people don't have the same interests as them, and they are well aware of that... are we?
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    yeah exactly this -- the United States specifically rejected the class status system from Royal Europe and Vedic India, and wrote law and legal precedence to defeat "the regulation, corporate, and State people all come from the same higher classes, all went to the same schools, and eat in the same fancy restaurants in the same bourgeois districts" human nature has developed over thousands of years at least, so is this still true? partly of course. So, make the world you want to live in.. speak in public, write, participate in civil society.. When money is involved of course there is insider dealing.. and there is legal enforcement everyday .. pick an example, the female South Asian lead Attorney for New York somewhere, a Wall Street enforcer.. look for it, easy to find. I am all for engagement, much less for repeating stories of old problems as if nothing has changed, right?
rayiner 4y ago
Lobbyists are overwhelmingly people who make PowerPoint presentations to Hill staffers. What do you think they are?
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  People who spend a lot of company money to take Hill people on lavish vacations and provide expensive meals and then show a PowerPoint presentation. It's totally not bribery though, just good business.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Nah, all that stuff is illegal today. The bribery comes later in the form of, “hey, you worked with us on that bill, maybe you’d be a good board member! We pay $xxx,xxx per year to board members and they meet 4 times a year” or, “you know, without this legislation we could totally open a new factory in your state; say, doesn’t your cousin own a supply company there? I wonder what a new factory would do for his business…”
    - rayiner 4y ago
      That’s legal in Europe too. Where’s Gerhard Schroeder these days?
      - PierreProstata 4y ago
        Since you brought up Schröder imma make it pretty Germany specific: parties and candidates are much less reliant on fundraising. Coalition building makes bribing/lobbying certain parties way less efficient. Ranked party lists makes singular politicians less targetable for bribing/lobbying. And Schröder has become one of the least popular former chancellors due to his engagements in Russian oil corporations and with the war going on pretty universally a persona non grata
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Congressional staffers aren’t allowed to accept meals from lobbyists. The rules are very strict, to the point where government employees will do stuff like kick in for the price of their meal at things like industry conferences.

by jgeada 4y ago

mistrial9 4y ago

us citizen not a lawyer -- the problems you state are so obvious, that they ALSO have been a multi-decade effort, to mitigate or control, with real rules, that are enforced. Specifically so that shrill, not-on-your-side people cannot dismiss the Entire System in a few words, as here. I am not a fan, nor making excuses, but its not constructive to oversimplify important, multi-step mechanisms

southerntofu 4y ago
> they ALSO have been a multi-decade effort, to mitigate or control, with real rules, that are enforced Source? In the global north, most regulatory bodies are understaffed and underbudget and cannot possibly even try to protect the public from vicious corporations. With the neoliberal wave of the 80s, there's been a merger of State and Corporations interests (what Mussolini called "corporatism") and millions of people have died as a result: from poverty, from work "accidents", from harmful chemicals advertised as medication, from industry pollution... The people in the regulatory bodies are friendly with the corporate people. It's not uncommon for these bloodsuckers to jump from one field to the other and back again in about a decade. To give one small example that's familiar with HN people: all of silicon valley hosts (GAFAM) were illegal by french privacy law (passed in 1978) yet they were all operating luxury offices in Paris and bribing engineers to come deceive/exploit the public. I'm not a fan of defending defeatist worldview, but to believe that the State is here to protect people from corporations is an oversimplification. The regulation, corporate, and State people all come from the same higher classes, all went to the same schools, and eat in the same fancy restaurants in the same bourgeois districts. We lower people don't have the same interests as them, and they are well aware of that... are we?
- mistrial9 4y ago
  yeah exactly this -- the United States specifically rejected the class status system from Royal Europe and Vedic India, and wrote law and legal precedence to defeat "the regulation, corporate, and State people all come from the same higher classes, all went to the same schools, and eat in the same fancy restaurants in the same bourgeois districts" human nature has developed over thousands of years at least, so is this still true? partly of course. So, make the world you want to live in.. speak in public, write, participate in civil society.. When money is involved of course there is insider dealing.. and there is legal enforcement everyday .. pick an example, the female South Asian lead Attorney for New York somewhere, a Wall Street enforcer.. look for it, easy to find. I am all for engagement, much less for repeating stories of old problems as if nothing has changed, right?

rayiner 4y ago

Lobbyists are overwhelmingly people who make PowerPoint presentations to Hill staffers. What do you think they are?

bluefirebrand 4y ago
People who spend a lot of company money to take Hill people on lavish vacations and provide expensive meals and then show a PowerPoint presentation. It's totally not bribery though, just good business.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Nah, all that stuff is illegal today. The bribery comes later in the form of, “hey, you worked with us on that bill, maybe you’d be a good board member! We pay $xxx,xxx per year to board members and they meet 4 times a year” or, “you know, without this legislation we could totally open a new factory in your state; say, doesn’t your cousin own a supply company there? I wonder what a new factory would do for his business…”
  - rayiner 4y ago
    That’s legal in Europe too. Where’s Gerhard Schroeder these days?
    - PierreProstata 4y ago
      Since you brought up Schröder imma make it pretty Germany specific: parties and candidates are much less reliant on fundraising. Coalition building makes bribing/lobbying certain parties way less efficient. Ranked party lists makes singular politicians less targetable for bribing/lobbying. And Schröder has become one of the least popular former chancellors due to his engagements in Russian oil corporations and with the war going on pretty universally a persona non grata
- rayiner 4y ago
  Congressional staffers aren’t allowed to accept meals from lobbyists. The rules are very strict, to the point where government employees will do stuff like kick in for the price of their meal at things like industry conferences.