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> It is interesting how much impact GitHub has had by not having Apple Silicon support Putting on my tin-foil hat for a sec: GitHub is owned by Microsoft, who

> It is interesting how much impact GitHub has had by not having Apple Silicon support Putting on my tin-foil hat for a sec: GitHub is owned by Microsoft, who would really stand to benefit from slowing down Apple Silicon adoption a bit...

michaelt 4y ago
Alternative theory: Apple doesn't offer an M1 server. Github doesn't offer an M1 build server because M1 servers don't exist.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Apple also doesn’t offer an x86 “server” yet Azure DevOps offers Mac build servers.
  - vchuravy 4y ago
    Yes because Microsoft got a special license from Apple that allows for the virtualization of Mac OS on non Apple hardware... The rest of us is still running on racks of Mac Minis
    - reaperhulk 4y ago
      Do you have a source for this claim? As far as I’m aware Azure racks mac minis and has no special license, but I’d be fascinated to be wrong.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - scarface74 4y ago
      This isn’t true. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/cloud-hosted-mac-agents-for-ci-cd-pipelines/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/cloud-hosted-mac-agent... > Please be aware that during this preview, our Mac hardware is hosted in third party datacenters in the United States and your build and release data could cross geopolitical lines. After each build completes, its macOS VM is reimaged, leaving no trace of your data on the agent. For more information, see where VSTS data is stored. Our Mac datacenters will expand to other geographies soon
      - Arnavion 4y ago
        Better link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/agents/hosted?view=azure-devops&tabs=yaml#hardware https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/agen... >Agents that run macOS images are provisioned on Mac pros with a 3 core CPU, 14 GB of RAM, and 14 GB of SSD disk space. These agents always run in the US irrespective of the location of your Azure DevOps organization.
      - agsnu 4y ago
        It sounds like they're just using MacStadium.
- icedchai 4y ago
  AWS offers Mac M1 instances, using Mac Minis. It seems like Github could do it.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Mac Minis aren't servers though - they suck in terms of redundancy, density, form factor, "lights out" management. It's fascinating the effort made by some ( like AWS, Mac Stadium, Scaleway) to try to force Mac Minis and Pros to be server-ish. And Apple's EULA makes them basically unusable as short term rented servers, there's a minimum of 24h which is ridiculous.
    - icedchai 4y ago
      True, but if they're "server enough" for AWS, I think that says something. The 24 hour thing is a problem though.
- barkingcat 4y ago
  M1 Mac Mini farms easily solve that question
  - jpalomaki 4y ago
    The comments on the github issue claim Apple ToS says you need to rent the machine to customer for 24h at a time. ”(ii) each lease period must be for a minimum period of twenty-four (24) consecutive hours; (iii) during the lease period, the End User Lessee must have sole and exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware ” https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSMonterey.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSMonterey.pdf (Section 3.)
- colordrops 4y ago
  You can't cross compile on an x86?
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Some things can be cross-compiled, sure. But a lot of projects have tests they want to run on their target platforms. If you build your Linux release on Windows, you might accidentally release a .zip where your binaries aren't executable. If you set up cross-compiling to Mac 5 years ago and tested it then, perhaps in the meantime code signing has become mandatory. If you build and test on Linux and release to Windows, perhaps you'll get tripped up by filenames becoming case-insensitive. Some projects are keen on testing on all target platforms to flush out issues like that.

michaelt 4y ago

Alternative theory: Apple doesn't offer an M1 server. Github doesn't offer an M1 build server because M1 servers don't exist.

scarface74 4y ago
Apple also doesn’t offer an x86 “server” yet Azure DevOps offers Mac build servers.
- vchuravy 4y ago
  Yes because Microsoft got a special license from Apple that allows for the virtualization of Mac OS on non Apple hardware... The rest of us is still running on racks of Mac Minis
  - reaperhulk 4y ago
    Do you have a source for this claim? As far as I’m aware Azure racks mac minis and has no special license, but I’d be fascinated to be wrong.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 4y ago
    This isn’t true. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/cloud-hosted-mac-agents-for-ci-cd-pipelines/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/devops/cloud-hosted-mac-agent... > Please be aware that during this preview, our Mac hardware is hosted in third party datacenters in the United States and your build and release data could cross geopolitical lines. After each build completes, its macOS VM is reimaged, leaving no trace of your data on the agent. For more information, see where VSTS data is stored. Our Mac datacenters will expand to other geographies soon
    - Arnavion 4y ago
      Better link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/agents/hosted?view=azure-devops&tabs=yaml#hardware https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/agen... >Agents that run macOS images are provisioned on Mac pros with a 3 core CPU, 14 GB of RAM, and 14 GB of SSD disk space. These agents always run in the US irrespective of the location of your Azure DevOps organization.
    - agsnu 4y ago
      It sounds like they're just using MacStadium.
icedchai 4y ago
AWS offers Mac M1 instances, using Mac Minis. It seems like Github could do it.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Mac Minis aren't servers though - they suck in terms of redundancy, density, form factor, "lights out" management. It's fascinating the effort made by some ( like AWS, Mac Stadium, Scaleway) to try to force Mac Minis and Pros to be server-ish. And Apple's EULA makes them basically unusable as short term rented servers, there's a minimum of 24h which is ridiculous.
  - icedchai 4y ago
    True, but if they're "server enough" for AWS, I think that says something. The 24 hour thing is a problem though.
barkingcat 4y ago
M1 Mac Mini farms easily solve that question
- jpalomaki 4y ago
  The comments on the github issue claim Apple ToS says you need to rent the machine to customer for 24h at a time. ”(ii) each lease period must be for a minimum period of twenty-four (24) consecutive hours; (iii) during the lease period, the End User Lessee must have sole and exclusive use and control of the Apple Software and the Apple-branded hardware ” https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSMonterey.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSMonterey.pdf (Section 3.)
colordrops 4y ago
You can't cross compile on an x86?
- michaelt 4y ago
  Some things can be cross-compiled, sure. But a lot of projects have tests they want to run on their target platforms. If you build your Linux release on Windows, you might accidentally release a .zip where your binaries aren't executable. If you set up cross-compiling to Mac 5 years ago and tested it then, perhaps in the meantime code signing has become mandatory. If you build and test on Linux and release to Windows, perhaps you'll get tripped up by filenames becoming case-insensitive. Some projects are keen on testing on all target platforms to flush out issues like that.