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I feel terrible for Hernando Barragán who invented Wiring, only for it essentially to be stolen by his advisor Massimo Banzi and renamed Arduino, leaving out th

by bmitc 4y ago

I feel terrible for Hernando Barragán who invented Wiring, only for it essentially to be stolen by his advisor Massimo Banzi and renamed Arduino, leaving out the inventor. Given that Banzi and the Arduino team never referred any credit to Wiring, I can only assume it was due to ego reasons since they credited Banzi's previous project as the source of Arduino. https://arduinohistory.github.io/ https://arduinohistory.github.io/ Then the Arduino team had their own further battle about rights. The Arduino folks don't seem to be the most honest of folks. I have always avoided Arduino due to this history.

mannanj 4y ago
Ah this is sad, and makes me too want to avoid arduino. Wonder if those below would consider similar if they knew.
- sieabah 4y ago
  It's open source, you can't really steal open source software unless it was never "free and open source" to begin with.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    Should we abide our lives by what lawyers say is right or wrong?
    - iosjunkie 4y ago
      Assuming what lawyers say is a reflection of what the governing law states or allows for, yes? Want to reign in the lawyers? Start with your governments.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    You can still be a jerk by making millions of dollars without crediting the work of your own grad student
    - iostream24 4y ago
      And we can still piggyback a zillion projects off the IDE, the libraries and HAL, and other artifacts of this complicated and sometimes disgraceful software project, it’s not like using Nazi experiment data to engage in Arduino ecosystem pilferage, with proper credit given to {project name}
- gregsadetsky 4y ago
  I think that it's fair to consider Arduino's complicated history (the legal battles, the Wiring history, etc.) while also acknowledging how revolutionary it's been to hobbyist electronics. I'm not sure what would be improved by trying to avoid Arduino at this point. Especially considering that it has spawned a very large and versatile ecosystem: all of the open source libraries that have been created for it (some random amazing ones: [0], [1]), the compatible shields and accessories [2], tutorials & courses, etc. It remains an extremely important and useful platform, and for good reason. [0] https://github.com/Avamander/arduino-tvout https://github.com/Avamander/arduino-tvout [1] https://github.com/sensorium/Mozzi https://github.com/sensorium/Mozzi [2] https://www.adafruit.com/category/21 https://www.adafruit.com/category/21
nickpinkston 4y ago
While it's regrettable if Massimo broke his trust, this is open source software/hardware, and its ethos is about sharing and forking the designs, so you can't really "steal" it. Also for context, Wiring was a further development of the open source Processing language, and Hernando is no more a "thief" for doing that. Also, the first inventor is only one part of any product, and it's hard to argue that Massimo did wrong to the community by popularizing Arduino, and people still know what Wiring is.
- bmitc 4y ago
  The point is that there was no reason not to just contribute to Wiring and take it from there. The nefarious thing is that they took the project and rewrote its history to make it seem as if it was their own work, meanwhile still taking new Wiring development and incorporating it into Arduino, all without credit. So it was about control and ego. I would assume that even some open source licenses were broken. Also, Banzi wrote this: https://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/ https://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/ lamenting this exact thing when it came to people doing it to Arduino.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    Great link! Thanks. Slightly off topic but in Banzi's article (subheading Counterfeits) he mentions the now well known problem of Amazon cohousing different manufacturers products and then effectively sending a random one to the client. I think this is interesting as it still seems to be a problem nearly a decade later.
- gspr 4y ago
  Something being open source typically doesn't mean you can copy and use it without attribution.
- _lqaf 4y ago
  I would say proper attribution and credit is even more important in open source development than elsewhere. My day job takes credit for my work, but compensates me in money. Pretty much the only "pay" for the vast majority of open source work is credit. > it's hard to argue that Massimo did wrong to the community by popularizing Arduino So who made that argument? I haven't seen anyone claim his marketing efforts were unethical. But let's say you wrote a significant part of a book. I took your work, completed it, and published it as solely my work. It becomes wildly successful. Have I done anything wrong?
tpmx 4y ago
I have zero qualms about buying cheap Arduino clone boards because of this. Although lately I've found myself requiring basic IP/wi-fi for almost every usecase, so I've turned to ESP8266/ESP32 boards instead of AVR boards. Here's hoping for a low-cost wi-fi-enabled Raspberry Pi Pico. I wonder what the wi-fi IP licensing cost is like for companies that actually need to pay attention to things like that.
- duxup 4y ago
  I've found ESP8266 boards really suit my needs more than a "full" Arduino boards, just a few wires and some built in wi-fi is all I want for the most part so far with how I've been using / playing them.
  - tgarv 4y ago
    I completely agree, with the exception of wanting easy support for powering from a lipo battery and also charging that battery without disconnecting it. This has led me to use the Adafruit Feather RP2040 lately because it has a builtin lipo charger and will automatically switch between USB and battery power as needed, but of course it doesn't work for projects that need WiFi. I'm hoping that we'll get a board that easily combines the two soon.
    - duxup 4y ago
      Oh I didn’t know about the lipo… did some googling and that seems really handy/ got me thinking. That explains why I haven’t found many battery powered Arduino options…. it is better on other boards. TY
- farisjarrah 4y ago
  There are RP2040 based boards with wifi are starting to come out. While they aren't horrendously expensive, they are double or triple the cost of a regular base raspberry pi pico model. Here is one I have seen, but I haven't used or played with it. https://thepihut.com/products/challenger-rp2040-wifi-chip-antenna https://thepihut.com/products/challenger-rp2040-wifi-chip-an...
suyash 4y ago
Thanks, did not know about this shady history.
moralestapia 4y ago
This kind of intellectual theft is extremely common in academia, particularly between <an immigrant from a different country> vs. <someone who is a national wherever this happens>. Recommended movie, Dark Matter [1]. 1: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416675/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416675/
- anaclet0 4y ago
  Source?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pilgrimfff 4y ago
And suddenly that twinge of guilt I felt when buying knockoff Arduino boards is... gone.

by bmitc 4y ago

mannanj 4y ago

Ah this is sad, and makes me too want to avoid arduino. Wonder if those below would consider similar if they knew.

sieabah 4y ago
It's open source, you can't really steal open source software unless it was never "free and open source" to begin with.
- bmitc 4y ago
  Should we abide our lives by what lawyers say is right or wrong?
  - iosjunkie 4y ago
    Assuming what lawyers say is a reflection of what the governing law states or allows for, yes? Want to reign in the lawyers? Start with your governments.
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  You can still be a jerk by making millions of dollars without crediting the work of your own grad student
  - iostream24 4y ago
    And we can still piggyback a zillion projects off the IDE, the libraries and HAL, and other artifacts of this complicated and sometimes disgraceful software project, it’s not like using Nazi experiment data to engage in Arduino ecosystem pilferage, with proper credit given to {project name}
gregsadetsky 4y ago
I think that it's fair to consider Arduino's complicated history (the legal battles, the Wiring history, etc.) while also acknowledging how revolutionary it's been to hobbyist electronics. I'm not sure what would be improved by trying to avoid Arduino at this point. Especially considering that it has spawned a very large and versatile ecosystem: all of the open source libraries that have been created for it (some random amazing ones: [0], [1]), the compatible shields and accessories [2], tutorials & courses, etc. It remains an extremely important and useful platform, and for good reason. [0] https://github.com/Avamander/arduino-tvout https://github.com/Avamander/arduino-tvout [1] https://github.com/sensorium/Mozzi https://github.com/sensorium/Mozzi [2] https://www.adafruit.com/category/21 https://www.adafruit.com/category/21

nickpinkston 4y ago

While it's regrettable if Massimo broke his trust, this is open source software/hardware, and its ethos is about sharing and forking the designs, so you can't really "steal" it. Also for context, Wiring was a further development of the open source Processing language, and Hernando is no more a "thief" for doing that. Also, the first inventor is only one part of any product, and it's hard to argue that Massimo did wrong to the community by popularizing Arduino, and people still know what Wiring is.

bmitc 4y ago
The point is that there was no reason not to just contribute to Wiring and take it from there. The nefarious thing is that they took the project and rewrote its history to make it seem as if it was their own work, meanwhile still taking new Wiring development and incorporating it into Arduino, all without credit. So it was about control and ego. I would assume that even some open source licenses were broken. Also, Banzi wrote this: https://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/ https://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/ lamenting this exact thing when it came to people doing it to Arduino.
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  Great link! Thanks. Slightly off topic but in Banzi's article (subheading Counterfeits) he mentions the now well known problem of Amazon cohousing different manufacturers products and then effectively sending a random one to the client. I think this is interesting as it still seems to be a problem nearly a decade later.
gspr 4y ago
Something being open source typically doesn't mean you can copy and use it without attribution.
_lqaf 4y ago
I would say proper attribution and credit is even more important in open source development than elsewhere. My day job takes credit for my work, but compensates me in money. Pretty much the only "pay" for the vast majority of open source work is credit. > it's hard to argue that Massimo did wrong to the community by popularizing Arduino So who made that argument? I haven't seen anyone claim his marketing efforts were unethical. But let's say you wrote a significant part of a book. I took your work, completed it, and published it as solely my work. It becomes wildly successful. Have I done anything wrong?

tpmx 4y ago

I have zero qualms about buying cheap Arduino clone boards because of this. Although lately I've found myself requiring basic IP/wi-fi for almost every usecase, so I've turned to ESP8266/ESP32 boards instead of AVR boards. Here's hoping for a low-cost wi-fi-enabled Raspberry Pi Pico. I wonder what the wi-fi IP licensing cost is like for companies that actually need to pay attention to things like that.

duxup 4y ago
I've found ESP8266 boards really suit my needs more than a "full" Arduino boards, just a few wires and some built in wi-fi is all I want for the most part so far with how I've been using / playing them.
- tgarv 4y ago
  I completely agree, with the exception of wanting easy support for powering from a lipo battery and also charging that battery without disconnecting it. This has led me to use the Adafruit Feather RP2040 lately because it has a builtin lipo charger and will automatically switch between USB and battery power as needed, but of course it doesn't work for projects that need WiFi. I'm hoping that we'll get a board that easily combines the two soon.
  - duxup 4y ago
    Oh I didn’t know about the lipo… did some googling and that seems really handy/ got me thinking. That explains why I haven’t found many battery powered Arduino options…. it is better on other boards. TY
farisjarrah 4y ago
There are RP2040 based boards with wifi are starting to come out. While they aren't horrendously expensive, they are double or triple the cost of a regular base raspberry pi pico model. Here is one I have seen, but I haven't used or played with it. https://thepihut.com/products/challenger-rp2040-wifi-chip-antenna https://thepihut.com/products/challenger-rp2040-wifi-chip-an...

suyash 4y ago

Thanks, did not know about this shady history.

moralestapia 4y ago

This kind of intellectual theft is extremely common in academia, particularly between <an immigrant from a different country> vs. <someone who is a national wherever this happens>. Recommended movie, Dark Matter [1]. 1: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416675/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416675/

anaclet0 4y ago
Source?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pilgrimfff 4y ago

And suddenly that twinge of guilt I felt when buying knockoff Arduino boards is... gone.