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I bet Poland and the Baltics are thinking about a nuclear program. Imagine this nightmare scenario that we just dodged: Trump in US, Corbyn in UK and Le Pen in

by 323 4y ago

I bet Poland and the Baltics are thinking about a nuclear program. Imagine this nightmare scenario that we just dodged: Trump in US, Corbyn in UK and Le Pen in France. And just like that, the nuclear shield against Russia is gone.

saiya-jin 4y ago
I can imagine Putin's FSB was working hard on helping this as much as they could (and they could quite a bit), seeing it as holy grail of western political (and thus military) weakness that can be massively taken advantage of. Its interesting to look back and see clear pattern - all nationalist politicians all being overly friendly with Russia. I can see exactly same pattern also in ie Czech republic and Slovakia where I come from. How ridiculous that is - you are supposed to have your country's interest above other interests, yet actually cheaply sell it off to long term enemy, who is not even hiding much that he is your enemy. IMHO - they did a good psy-ops span over almost 20 years, dividing, sowing paranoia against everything that made west strong (EU, US, illuminati, soros, gates, covid vaccinations etc.). But not good enough to succeed even though parts of populations are lost probably forever into this primitive them-against-us paranoia hell.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > IMHO - they did a good psy-ops span over almost 20 years, It's not clear to me that they ever stopped the continuous Soviet efforts to undermine the West; one of the reasons, I assume, that Communist groups in the West are so often channels of Russian propaganda despite Russia very much not being Communist is because the Russians just continued to use the channels the Soviet services had in place, as well opening new ones.
- effie 4y ago
  FSB is for internal control, that would be GRU or other unknown parts of spook operations. There is alternative explanation to being friendly with Russia - some people believe it can work, especially when they are part of NATO. Look at what Merkel was doing, what Orban is doing - Russian oil, gas is all benefits and no drawbacks to their country. Not all friendly relations with Russia are a scheme set up and controlled from Moscow, sometimes it really makes economic sense. Plus there may have been some nice bribes flowing to the right pockets, of course.
effie 4y ago
Nuclear shield is a pretty nonsensical media term. There is no shielding from nuclear weapons, there is only nuclear deterrence. And I don't think pro-Russian leaderships in those countries would dumbly remove nuclear deterrent to Russia. It would stay, maybe shift around a little.

by 323 4y ago

saiya-jin 4y ago

I can imagine Putin's FSB was working hard on helping this as much as they could (and they could quite a bit), seeing it as holy grail of western political (and thus military) weakness that can be massively taken advantage of. Its interesting to look back and see clear pattern - all nationalist politicians all being overly friendly with Russia. I can see exactly same pattern also in ie Czech republic and Slovakia where I come from. How ridiculous that is - you are supposed to have your country's interest above other interests, yet actually cheaply sell it off to long term enemy, who is not even hiding much that he is your enemy. IMHO - they did a good psy-ops span over almost 20 years, dividing, sowing paranoia against everything that made west strong (EU, US, illuminati, soros, gates, covid vaccinations etc.). But not good enough to succeed even though parts of populations are lost probably forever into this primitive them-against-us paranoia hell.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> IMHO - they did a good psy-ops span over almost 20 years, It's not clear to me that they ever stopped the continuous Soviet efforts to undermine the West; one of the reasons, I assume, that Communist groups in the West are so often channels of Russian propaganda despite Russia very much not being Communist is because the Russians just continued to use the channels the Soviet services had in place, as well opening new ones.
effie 4y ago
FSB is for internal control, that would be GRU or other unknown parts of spook operations. There is alternative explanation to being friendly with Russia - some people believe it can work, especially when they are part of NATO. Look at what Merkel was doing, what Orban is doing - Russian oil, gas is all benefits and no drawbacks to their country. Not all friendly relations with Russia are a scheme set up and controlled from Moscow, sometimes it really makes economic sense. Plus there may have been some nice bribes flowing to the right pockets, of course.

effie 4y ago

Nuclear shield is a pretty nonsensical media term. There is no shielding from nuclear weapons, there is only nuclear deterrence. And I don't think pro-Russian leaderships in those countries would dumbly remove nuclear deterrent to Russia. It would stay, maybe shift around a little.