4 ms·

If anything bad happens to Finland because of their delayed admission to NATO, I will not be on speaking terms with turks.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> If anything bad happens to Finland because of their delayed admission to NATO The Finland-Sweden-UK mutual defense pact should be a firewall against that, even before considering the fuzzier interim individual commitments from other NATO members.
- robonerd 4y ago
  I sincerely hope you're right and rationally you should be, but Putin seems deranged.
Spare_account 4y ago
Finland is a member of the EU, and benefits from the mutual defence pact that EU membership brings. An attack on a single EU nation is to invite war with all EU nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Po...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > an attack on a single EU nation is to invite war with all EU nations This is far from settled. Legally, the EU's mutual defence pact [1] has a lot of outs. What counts as "armed aggression"? "Aid and assist[ance]"? "In [one's] power"? Contrast that to NATO's Article V [2]. "Armed attack" is clearly defined in Article VI and includes no wiggle room on what counts or doesn't count as aggression. "Will assist" is unconditional. (There is the "as it deems necessary" bit.) Most pointedly, NATO trains and strategises together. European common defence is much less organized. " [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-d... [2] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.ht...
  - jgilias 4y ago
    Sure. But even if Germany falters, the Baltics, the EU Nordics (maybe even Norway though), as well as Poland will be there as soon as it would be possible.
- arroz 4y ago
  I think this is not considered a threat to Russia, probably because Russian and Finnish society are too different anyway. Also Finnish land sucks, they don’t get anything of value except for a buffer zone (which is what they claim they want but they have nukes so they don’t really need it)
lordofgibbons 4y ago
Finland and Sweden area already under the UK's nuclear umbrella https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700
antupis 4y ago
As Finn I am not that worried. Ukraine style attack to Finland would be suicide. Finland has much better airforces and artillery than Ukraine and then there is terrain which is just horrible to attack.
- GracieFilms 4y ago
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    Because it would make an attack even less likely, as it would involve other NATO countries.
  - hedora 4y ago
    The only way to win is not to play. Joining NATO takes them off the list of countries Russia can consider invading.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    That's silly. It's better to not have a war at all (due to deterrence) than have a war where you have to defend your territory and eventually emerge victorious.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> If anything bad happens to Finland because of their delayed admission to NATO The Finland-Sweden-UK mutual defense pact should be a firewall against that, even before considering the fuzzier interim individual commitments from other NATO members.

robonerd 4y ago
I sincerely hope you're right and rationally you should be, but Putin seems deranged.

Spare_account 4y ago

Finland is a member of the EU, and benefits from the mutual defence pact that EU membership brings. An attack on a single EU nation is to invite war with all EU nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Po...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> an attack on a single EU nation is to invite war with all EU nations This is far from settled. Legally, the EU's mutual defence pact [1] has a lot of outs. What counts as "armed aggression"? "Aid and assist[ance]"? "In [one's] power"? Contrast that to NATO's Article V [2]. "Armed attack" is clearly defined in Article VI and includes no wiggle room on what counts or doesn't count as aggression. "Will assist" is unconditional. (There is the "as it deems necessary" bit.) Most pointedly, NATO trains and strategises together. European common defence is much less organized. " [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-d... [2] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.ht...
- jgilias 4y ago
  Sure. But even if Germany falters, the Baltics, the EU Nordics (maybe even Norway though), as well as Poland will be there as soon as it would be possible.
arroz 4y ago
I think this is not considered a threat to Russia, probably because Russian and Finnish society are too different anyway. Also Finnish land sucks, they don’t get anything of value except for a buffer zone (which is what they claim they want but they have nukes so they don’t really need it)

lordofgibbons 4y ago

Finland and Sweden area already under the UK's nuclear umbrella https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61408700

antupis 4y ago

As Finn I am not that worried. Ukraine style attack to Finland would be suicide. Finland has much better airforces and artillery than Ukraine and then there is terrain which is just horrible to attack.

GracieFilms 4y ago
- meepmorp 4y ago
  Because it would make an attack even less likely, as it would involve other NATO countries.
- hedora 4y ago
  The only way to win is not to play. Joining NATO takes them off the list of countries Russia can consider invading.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  That's silly. It's better to not have a war at all (due to deterrence) than have a war where you have to defend your territory and eventually emerge victorious.