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This year we finally moved to the US after 2 years of Covid-induced delays. We moved to Seattle because it's where my team is based. I'm far from impressed. Th

• usrn 4y ago
  God only knows why we still have net immigration. I guess despite the way minorities and lower classes are "oppressed" we're still better than everywhere else somehow?
  • Frost1x 4y ago
    I'd say that and and the global propoganda machine is strong. There's many from outside the country who have a picture of what it's like to live here that doesn't align with reality. I think much of it is due to entertainment: movies, TV shows, etc. that give this false impression that everything is rosey all the time. The lower classes are abused here as well and classes do exist but it's probably better being poor in the US than being poor in most parts of the world. If nothing else you have access to emergency rooms and food, although you may not have real housing.
    • redisman 4y ago
      Immigrants aren’t dumb. The problem is that westerners have no idea what a median persons life in Africa or South America is like
      • wincy 4y ago
        It’s true. I was asking a person I know from Kenya what’s it’s like there. She said it’s a beautiful please, pretty good but I’d have to hire security guards to avoid getting kidnapped and ransomed. We just don’t realize how good the US is.
        • usrn 4y ago
          There are places in the US you shouldn't go without security
      • cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        Or even EU. There is a reason there is still brain drain from Europe to the US.
      • Frost1x 4y ago
        It's not that they're dumb, they're often simply unaware and misinformed. I had several international friends in college who studied in the US and almost all of them returned home. Many came to the US not just for education but intending to stay and do well for themselves. After dealing with the culture and environment here, most realized the places they came from weren't really all that bad and their opportunities there was just as good. Most assumed the US was NYC and LA everywhere. This is clearly in contrast to people coming from poverty in say Sri Lanka where even the worst here are often doing better in terms of human rights, access to ERs, access to shelters, etc.
  • Swizec 4y ago
    As an immigrant I often wonder if America’s economy works so well in spite of or because of its policies. But one thing is clear: Last year I saved more money than I made in my last year in Europe. And that’s while paying rent in downtown SF To give a more surprising comparison - my country’s entire GDP fits into Apple's quarterly profits. The pie is large here.
    • nopenopenopeno 4y ago
      America’s economy doesn’t work well at all for most people. It only works well for the rich, i.e. those who directly benefit from a higher GDP.
      • Swizec 4y ago
        I’m going to assume you’ve never lived in an economy where median wage is $1000/month. Because it sounds like you have no idea what you’re talking about Everyone benefits from higher GDP. Yes the rich benefit more, but I promise you that everyone being equally destitute is no walk in the park either. Reading about the economic histories of South America, China, Eastern Europe, and Africa are great places to learn more about how low GDP is terrible for everyone involved.
      • cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        Yes, that's why America is #1 for immigrants.
      • astrange 4y ago
        The rich are people who don't need the economy to do well. It's everyone else that relies on it. "The stock market isn't the economy" goes both ways.
  • nopenopenopeno 4y ago
    The word is exploited. The lower classes are exploited.
  • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    The US is still a pretty good place for people with highly desirable skillsets, no / small families and specific mindsets. If you're Average Joe looking to start a family, a middling job and no assets or inheritance to your name, it's pretty mediocre (though some would argue "well you could learn programming").
  • squaresmile 4y ago
    Like Swizec said, the pie is unfathomably large in the US compared to developing countries. There are many nooks and crannies you can slot yourself into. Sometimes I feel like on HN people can't fathom how to live in the US if you make less than double the median salary lol. It's not a walk in the park but it's manageable. It should also be noted that very few people immigrate even among people who have "plausible" paths to it. I don't think it's fair to draw much conclusion about the whole society from immigration flows.
    • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      Even on the remainder of the net, it's pretty difficult for others to get an idea what a modest living in the US is. On the flip side, many (less fortunate?) American anecdotes lament the lack of safety nets in America compared to Europe. Most anecdotes I read are either "I earn 200k+ and work 40 hours", "My job is my life and I do great love the American Dream" or "I can barely make rent and work 60 hours a day". I don't doubt average people survive but it sure would be nice to get an idea what "average" actually entails across an entire year. Especially someone who doesn't have a house or an inheritance on their name.
      • woobar 4y ago
        Are you asking about averages/medians across the country? Median family will have 1 child, earn $80K/year, pay <20% income taxes, live in 2400 sqft house, own two 12 year old cars and commute 1 hour/day to work. Will have ~15 vacation and another 10 days of paid holidays per year.
  • angarg12 4y ago
    Don't know about others, but I can tell you my reasons: a) Higher salary b) Better career opportunities c) An idealized view of the American society a) is easiest. I more than doubled my income by moving here. If I jumped companies (I can't due to visa) I could easily expect a 50%-100% bump. That's nothing to scoff at. Even accounting for increased cost of living, we are talking about life changing amounts of money. Also it's impossible to not feel bad when you know that the junior eng. you are coaching due to perf issues makes more money than you, just because he lives in the US and you don't. b) is more subtle. I always had the perception that people at the main offices got better opportunities and faster promos than people at satellite offices. Other's have echoed these feelings, but I've never seen data. Outside the company, it is undeniable the job market is bigger and hotter here. Even the largest EU tech hubs don't come close. c) is the lousiest one. I haven't had much chance to experience it yet so I don't have much of an opinion. I'd say though that having lived in 5 different countries, there are other places with a culture that resonates with me. So yes, USA might be better than my home country, but there are alternatives. Now due to Covid points a) and b) are becoming less important. Salaries in the EU have gone up, and with mostly remote workforces career opportunities are better distributed. c) was always subjective and a matter of taste. So far I haven't got a great image of the American society, but our landing here has been particularly rough. I think I'll give it a couple of years before I pass judgement.
    • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      >Salaries in the EU have gone up Source on this? Preferably with respect to inflation. >and with mostly remote workforces career opportunities are better distributed I think you're overestimating the effects of this. Companies are already making a fuss about remote work in the same time zone, let alone 4-6 time zones apart.
      • angarg12 4y ago
        That's fair. Most of it is hear say and anecdotal evidence. I know my company has increased salaries but that's one data point. The only data I got from the top of my head is levels.fyi annual report. Numbers are all over the place but it shows a general upward trend. These numbers are from past years so they shouldn't account for the massive inflation of late. Regarding opportunities, again this is mostly personal and anecdotal evidence. Due to Covid I worked remotely across the ocean for 2 years. Last year I got a top perf rating and I got my case for promo, despite being the only person in the whole org working 8 hours apart. I feel in EU there were more project with collaborations between people from different countries compared to pre-covid. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/2019/ https://www.levels.fyi/2019/ [2] https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ https://www.levels.fyi/2020/ [3] https://www.levels.fyi/2021/ https://www.levels.fyi/2021/
• switchbak 4y ago
  The PNW has had an unusually rainy spring/early summer though, I think Seattle is usually a lot drier. The only silver lining might be fewer forest fires. In my case I've been leaning hard into remote work for about 15 years now. Mostly for quality of life/access to nature. I've made real sacrifices to make that happen, but I'm glad to see the rest of the IT world is coming around to embracing us remote devs. It's still an uphill battle in many cases though. I don't think you'll ever see me in a big city again, and I don't think I'm alone.
  • smt88 4y ago
    Seattle weather is... polarizing... even in a more typical year. I personally find it hard to deal with so little sunshine.
    • delecti 4y ago
      That's definitely true. Lots of people I know here have a hard time with SAD, and Seattle being so far north is exacerbated by how cloudy the winter is. Though if the winter isn't a dealbreaker, the summer makes up for it by being absolutely gorgeous for a few months almost straight, at least aside from wildfire smoke and a handful of days of unbearable heat.
      • redisman 4y ago
        The smoke sucks but as for heat, I’m not sure you can avoid some hot days anywhere in the US
        • delecti 4y ago
          Yes, though most places in Seattle don't have AC because it's not hot enough often enough, so 90+ here can be more disruptive than 100+ in other places, and 100+ here is dangerous and debilitating.
    • redisman 4y ago
      I am amazed by how many people from Southern California move here and buy a house immediately. Only to scuttle back after the first year. Give it a test run first guys. Personally I come from a much colder climate than the PNW so I enjoy how mild and lush it is all year. And I find rain to be cozy.
• tjr225 4y ago
  • matthewmacleod 4y ago
    Person: "I don't really like it here and think I might leave" You: "stop talking shit and just leave" ???
    • tjr225 4y ago
    • EB66 4y ago
      I don't see what's so confusing. Unfortunately, it seems like a pretty predictable and rational response to me. All of the high prices in Seattle have been caused by the whopping 21%+ increase in city population (!!!) over the past decade. When Seattlites hear newcomers, particularly highly paid software engineers, moaning and groaning about the weather and high prices, there is very little sympathy to be had.
  • coenhyde 4y ago
    What a terrible take. You're the kind of NIMBY who creates the problems then blames them on new residents. How about you listen to their problems and solve some of them instead of blaming them for problems they did not create.
    • EB66 4y ago
      The problem in Seattle is that it's been flooded by highly paid tech workers. Our population has exploded in the past decade (over 21% increase). The city council has pushed through tons of rezoning and construction has been faster here than elsewhere in the country but it can't keep up with demand. So, it may not be polite to point it out, but it's not inaccurate to say that the problem is in fact people like the OP.
      • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
• themanmaran 4y ago
  The southern states are pretty great. ATL (hometown) is getting more expensive but has a pretty decent tech scene. Also the best airport in the US (direct flights everywhere). I've also been interested in North Carolina for a little while. Much more affordable (compared to PNW), and has some really nice areas (Asheville, Raleigh/Durham). But transportation is a bit more limited.
  • mgkimsal 4y ago
    Had expected NC to show up on that list somehow, but with respect to raw % deltas, those other areas might still be having larger % growth (or shrinkage).
  • shmatt 4y ago
    ATL averages about 33% more rain than Seattle Honestly unless OP goes to California, where the housing situation is much worse, or middle of nowhere like Nevada, they're going to be much wetter (albeit in the Summer and not Winter/Spring) in most of the south
    • wing-_-nuts 4y ago
      More rain yes, but that rain comes down in heavy storms instead of miserable perma-drizzle and mist. This means even days with a forecast for rain will often be sunny until the front rolls through.
      • juve1996 4y ago
        Sunny and oppressively humid and hot.
        • wing-_-nuts 4y ago
          It's all relative. Atlanta is refreshingly cool compared to cities located closer to the gulf coast.
        • TrueGeek 4y ago
• rootsudo 4y ago
  This is a common problem w/ Seattle. I've always thought that the bad weather did push enough people away in tech. This spring is one of the wettest and coldest, but it has been going that way, wetter springs, colder winters/snows Jan-Feb High prices and reduced value all around.
• zucked 4y ago
  Yes, the housing is, by-and-large, a lot cheaper, but the cities are not super walkable (if that's important to you) and the weather is often the opposite of cold and wet - it's hot and muggy. I don't do well with humidity, so a huge swath of the US is out for me. Plugging this tool again because it ate up an hour of my day last time it was posted: https://www.movemap.io/explore/us https://www.movemap.io/explore/us
  • Victerius 4y ago
    Cold and wet weather is great. When climate change renders the southwestern United States and large parts of Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia uninhabitable, people will be ready to kill for the right to live in a cold and wet weather.
    • lllkgxsgnc 4y ago
      [dead]
      • zucked 4y ago
        While I agree that having a modicum of restraint about making claims of Mad Max being imminent is prudent, I also believe that this is coming to a head at least during our children's lifetime, if not ours. The earth isn't hosed tomorrow - we've probably got a couple of decades yet, but the writing is on the wall. OP can plan according to their risk appetite. I'm sure as heck not trying to buy a million acre ranch in Wyoming right now, that's for sure.
  • mhzsh 4y ago
    Well, thanks for eating up a bunch of my time, too. It feels like some of the data its using for hazards is wrong. My current county gets excluded by "avoid hurricanes" and "avoid tornados", where I don't remember there ever being a tornado (definitely nothing major), and hurricane risk is very low (not directly coastal).
    • bombcar 4y ago
• bin_bash 4y ago
  I've lived all over the west coast my entire life but moved to the Dallas area (a place I'd never been to) somewhat recently. We're incredibly happy. The schools are outstanding, I've never seen a single homeless person in our town, and the crime rate is nonexistent. We bought a 4000sqft palace for half of what our last house cost. Cost of living generally is far lower. There is virtually never any traffic. People we meet are generally happy and not obsessed with their careers. There is actually a lot more for us to do since a lot of places cater to people with young children. Yes it's hot, but everywhere is air conditioned. There isn't a lot of outdoorsy things to do aside from hanging out by the pool anyways. The nature is ugly and there are no hills, but with the money we save we are able to travel a ton to prettier locales. We're right by one of the biggest airports in the world after all. I would never recommend visiting Dallas, it's a dull city, but as far as places to live it's far surpassed my expectations.
  • EB66 4y ago
    > There isn't a lot of outdoorsy things to do aside from hanging out by the pool anyways though. The nature is ugly and there are no hills. That's primarily why people tolerate Seattle's climate. 9 months out of the year it will often be grey and rainy, but the natural wilderness is phenomenal exactly because of that. If you're into the outdoors, backpacking, fishing, kayaking, canoeing, mountain biking, trail running, skiing, rock climbing, there's tons of stuff within an hour drive of the city. If you get out backpacking and chat with other people you meet on the trails, it's a pretty common refrain that they moved here in large part for the outdoors. And then when July - Sept rolls around and it's consistently warm and sunny -- you can't beat it! Personally, the grey rainy weather was never really off putting for me. But that's probably because I was born here and I'm used to it. It's like that Bane quote from Batman: "Ah you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!"
    • bin_bash 4y ago
      One notable difference between Texas and PNW weather is that during the winter in the PNW you'll pretty much never get a nice day. There might be a single weekend in March where the weather hits 65 or so. In Texas our winters have a lot of variability, there isn't a 2 week period without a 75 or even 80 degree day. Perfect for hanging out in the park or going for a walk in the dead of "winter". I wouldn't advocate for our weather generally but I do like these breaks from winter we seem to get.
• dixie_land 4y ago
  don’t you wish you was in Dixie! :P I’m in the Seattle area too and it was indeed the wettest May in like 30 years. (Usually summers are great in the area but not so sure about that this year) With remote work a lot of options opens up for you, esp with some rural areas getting community built fiber! You don’t have to choose between acres of pasture and fast Internet any more!
• subsubzero 4y ago
  For weather you are right, it has been incredibly cold on the west coast all winter/spring this year, I lived down in Socal and cities near me were seeing records broken for all time lows, our old neighbors were saying this was one of the coldest winters they had ever seen. I think its a La Nina event that is causing the colder weathers so you make have been unlucky in that regard.
• michaelbrave 4y ago
  I've lived quite a few places all over the US, Most of my time being spent in California, Texas, Utah and Colorado. But I've also lived in Florida, Oklahoma, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, an Louisiana. So I've got some perspective. Not liking cold and wet eliminates Utah/Colorado and the best parts of New Mexico since they all get snow, a caveat of the south is the humidity is rather strong, so the wetness might still be there. Since you are thinking about going to the south and since I'm most familiar with Texas I'll explain about that. I think most of the US is can be disappointing in different ways, but it's still mostly divided between City, Suburbs and Rural lifestyle. A prevailing problem is how most cities are designed as car first, this goes back to lobbying in the 50s-Today but its enough to say that the only places with good walkability and public transportation are large cities in mostly progressive areas. As an example Southern California Vs Texas. Cali has worse traffic and more people, but has better public transportation (though its still not great compared to other countries), while Texas has lots of toll roads, near the highways instead of loading ramps they have frontage roads (which to me feels like a solution optimized for about 30% of what the population is), has almost no public transportation and has somehow made their cities even less walkable than nearly anywhere else I've ever been (only certain districts are walkable, usually places like a downtown or places to bar crawl). The sprawl in the south is even more pronounced than almost anywhere else, the cities are not condensed at all, The Dallas-FortWorth area is a good example, it's probably easier to call it a region of 10-20 cities than to call it a city area, just the way it's designed, they are all kinda separated districts that don't mix with each other, don't connect properly. Housing is expensive anywhere the closer to a city you get, it's slightly cheaper in Texas than California, but if you live in the middle of nowhere in Cali, and the middle of nowhere in Texas it is comparable. The rest of the south I've visited or spent time in, once you get away from the cities there is a kind of weighty feeling there, almost despair, it's palpable. I think it comes from centuries of poverty and how nothing changes except prices going up. The weather is nice but the culture, lack of resources, lack of opportunities and lack of networks almost always make it a negative to be there. The positives are the food is tasty, the music is good, Atlanta is doing some cool stuff in entertainment and AI and Miami is also doing some interesting stuff in Finance and Stocks, Austin has a fun culture of music + tech + weirdness, San Antonio actually could become a place of tech manufacturing if they play their cards right. There are some fun places to go fishing too. Thats about it really. I've found most of the south to on the whole be a rather unpleasant place.
• czbond 4y ago
  I'm glad you're happy in Dallas. I'm a Dallas native who moved - bc we couldn't stand it. Many folks I know also moved, it seems to be a city for a certain type. I'll relay my type for others who may read your version. We moved due to the consumerism (I've called it the Los Angeles of the South) and utter boredom of the city if you're not into shopping, eating out, sports teams, and many are focused solely on their corporate j.o.b. However, after moving I've also found that places that don't care about their career - are on the opposite end of the annoying spectrum (ha!) The people in Dallas are some of the best I've met, down to Earth, easy to talk with and get along. But hell if I'd ever move back.
  • bin_bash 4y ago
    Dallas has a definite "consumerist" feel to it. You see more luxury cars here than in SF even though there is a lot less money. Sports are big though I'm definitely not into them. I think it depends on where you are in life and what you want out of your city. I would hate this place if I was 20. It's not the best for meeting new people from different walks of life and experiencing new things. It's for people looking to settle down in comfort with their families. It has a real 1950's postwar America feel to me. If you don't have a family don't bother moving to Dallas: you'll be bored out of your skull and have no way to relate to people. I think you're wrong that people are focused solely on their job here, for that experience move to the Bay or Seattle. Here I find even software engineers are more likely to talk to me about what fruit trees they're growing in their backyard than what Series their startup just entered.
• mkr-hn 4y ago
  You might not like the constant thunderstorm/tornado watches and warnings from all the pop-up thunderstorms during the summer due to the Gulf. Everywhere you go will have problems. It's mostly a choice of which problems you can live with.
• hellohowareu 4y ago
  I'm renting a 2 BR/1 BA house for $1300 with a backyard and views of nature, a mile from a hiking trailhead. In a college town between Austin and San Antonio. For the same price, I could get a small, mediocre 1 BR/1 BA apartment in Austin with views of... another apartment, and a wall. In San Jose or Seattle, I imagine I'd get just a bedroom for $1300.