4 ms·

This is the way. We need more of this. I'm at a point where if a recruiter messages me "about an exciting opportunity" without any salary information, he/she w

by avgDev 4y ago

This is the way. We need more of this. I'm at a point where if a recruiter messages me "about an exciting opportunity" without any salary information, he/she will not get a response. While there are some jobs that maybe I would consider a pay cut for, I generally want to make more money because that allows me to invest more so I can be free one day.

itqwertz 4y ago
If you do follow up and eventually ask for a salary range, expect vague terms like “competitive” or “market rate”.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  The correct way to interpret this is "Silicon Valley competitive/market rate". The reaction you'll get is hilarious in some cases.
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
The whole prudish / secretive attitude around salaries has got to be one of the most annoying parts. Just get the formalities over with instead of wasting time, please.
wonderwonder 4y ago
I get ~4 recruiter emails a day and I don't think I have ever seen the salary in the initial job description. If the job looks interesting I will just reply asking what the salary is. Usually they immediately call me rather than respond via email which is pretty annoying.
- silicon2401 4y ago
  This is why I stopped putting personal info in my resume. I once had a particularly aggressive recruiter try and recruit me for a contracting position (I only consider full time roles), and when I repeatedly declined his offer, he actually found my resume somewhere and just called my phone. Needless to say it was incredibly annoying and ever since then I've kept all contact info out of my resume.
  - r00fus 4y ago
    I put my Google Voice on my resume (and other places like my .sig) and I generally just forward all GV calls to VM. If they care to leave a message or send a text, I may read it. If they don't then I ignore (unless I'm expecting a call from that number in which case I'll call back in a day or two). Sometimes (like when we were looking for a nanny a few years ago) I may let GV actually ring on my main line.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Of course, they already know what they will get, it is a fixed price. Anything they don't pay whoever they hire is money they get to keep. (they can't hire a junior engineer to a senior position - if the contract allowed that they would though). I've seen cases where someone doesn't know their value and thus accepts a very low offer.
- avgDev 4y ago
  Pretty common sales tactic. They want you to invest as much time as possible because generally the more time you invest the more likely they are going to make a "sale". I'm not sure if this even works for devs as there is so many opportunities.
xtracto 4y ago
I just reply to everyone with my expected salary, which is 30% increase of my current salary. If they are not close to that number, then it is better to not waste our time. I've been in the employer position (as a hiring manager) and in the Employee position. I know how much I am worth (or what I want to be worth), so I don't really care about playing games and haggling. I'ts ok, my value might become lower in a recession, or when trying to get into new verticals. When that happens, I'll adjust my expectations.
- cfcfcf 4y ago
  Do you reveal your current salary? Or give a ballpark?
  - xtracto 4y ago
    I'll respond with a slightly different answer: In my country, not only it is NOT illegal for a company to ask you for your current salary. They can actually ask you to provide a pay slip!! So, I give CURRENT_SALARY*30% and tell them it's that.
collegeburner 4y ago
No not necessarily. Let me go over some scenarios: Bob contributes 1. I contribute 1.25. Units don't matter, I contribute 25% more. It used to be maybe the salary band is $100k to $130k. Bob gets $100k. I get $125k. My employer gets a total value of 2.25 for $225k. Now my employer has to disclose salaries and has 2 options: 1) Don't make out salaries the same, Bob quits, now the employer has only 1.25 when they need 2.25 and have to go re-hire ($50k or more in a lot of times). 2) Make our salaries the same, so now Bob also gets $125k and employer pays $250k for 2.25. This is what will happen in the short term and what attracts people, but in the long term what will happen is 3) Make our salaries the same but slow raises so gradually they go to the inflation indexed amount of about the average, so $112.5k more or less. Now employer still pays $225k for 2.25. But now I am subsidizing Bob the less productive worker for $12.5k every year. A lot like unions, making things more uniform often comes at some expense to the top performers. I always sit near that top so I say no this is stupid and I hate it. I don't give a shit what Bob is paid and I give even less if it costs me money for him to get more.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  On HN a lot more than half the commenters believe themselves to be one of the top performers.
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    I can believe that people who spend extra time like that skew to above average. Hn is not a random sample, it is very self selective.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  1b) Bob actually has a bit of self-awareness, nothing happens. 1c) Bob gets annoyed and tries to leave, but all the offers aren't really better.
- Epa095 4y ago
  [citation needed]. Is there no market here? No other companies which sees the opportunity to grab you?

by avgDev 4y ago

itqwertz 4y ago

If you do follow up and eventually ask for a salary range, expect vague terms like “competitive” or “market rate”.

908B64B197 4y ago
The correct way to interpret this is "Silicon Valley competitive/market rate". The reaction you'll get is hilarious in some cases.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

The whole prudish / secretive attitude around salaries has got to be one of the most annoying parts. Just get the formalities over with instead of wasting time, please.

wonderwonder 4y ago

I get ~4 recruiter emails a day and I don't think I have ever seen the salary in the initial job description. If the job looks interesting I will just reply asking what the salary is. Usually they immediately call me rather than respond via email which is pretty annoying.

silicon2401 4y ago
This is why I stopped putting personal info in my resume. I once had a particularly aggressive recruiter try and recruit me for a contracting position (I only consider full time roles), and when I repeatedly declined his offer, he actually found my resume somewhere and just called my phone. Needless to say it was incredibly annoying and ever since then I've kept all contact info out of my resume.
- r00fus 4y ago
  I put my Google Voice on my resume (and other places like my .sig) and I generally just forward all GV calls to VM. If they care to leave a message or send a text, I may read it. If they don't then I ignore (unless I'm expecting a call from that number in which case I'll call back in a day or two). Sometimes (like when we were looking for a nanny a few years ago) I may let GV actually ring on my main line.
bluGill 4y ago
Of course, they already know what they will get, it is a fixed price. Anything they don't pay whoever they hire is money they get to keep. (they can't hire a junior engineer to a senior position - if the contract allowed that they would though). I've seen cases where someone doesn't know their value and thus accepts a very low offer.
avgDev 4y ago
Pretty common sales tactic. They want you to invest as much time as possible because generally the more time you invest the more likely they are going to make a "sale". I'm not sure if this even works for devs as there is so many opportunities.

xtracto 4y ago

I just reply to everyone with my expected salary, which is 30% increase of my current salary. If they are not close to that number, then it is better to not waste our time. I've been in the employer position (as a hiring manager) and in the Employee position. I know how much I am worth (or what I want to be worth), so I don't really care about playing games and haggling. I'ts ok, my value might become lower in a recession, or when trying to get into new verticals. When that happens, I'll adjust my expectations.

cfcfcf 4y ago
Do you reveal your current salary? Or give a ballpark?
- xtracto 4y ago
  I'll respond with a slightly different answer: In my country, not only it is NOT illegal for a company to ask you for your current salary. They can actually ask you to provide a pay slip!! So, I give CURRENT_SALARY*30% and tell them it's that.

collegeburner 4y ago

No not necessarily. Let me go over some scenarios: Bob contributes 1. I contribute 1.25. Units don't matter, I contribute 25% more. It used to be maybe the salary band is $100k to $130k. Bob gets $100k. I get $125k. My employer gets a total value of 2.25 for $225k. Now my employer has to disclose salaries and has 2 options: 1) Don't make out salaries the same, Bob quits, now the employer has only 1.25 when they need 2.25 and have to go re-hire ($50k or more in a lot of times). 2) Make our salaries the same, so now Bob also gets $125k and employer pays $250k for 2.25. This is what will happen in the short term and what attracts people, but in the long term what will happen is 3) Make our salaries the same but slow raises so gradually they go to the inflation indexed amount of about the average, so $112.5k more or less. Now employer still pays $225k for 2.25. But now I am subsidizing Bob the less productive worker for $12.5k every year. A lot like unions, making things more uniform often comes at some expense to the top performers. I always sit near that top so I say no this is stupid and I hate it. I don't give a shit what Bob is paid and I give even less if it costs me money for him to get more.

rootusrootus 4y ago
On HN a lot more than half the commenters believe themselves to be one of the top performers.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  I can believe that people who spend extra time like that skew to above average. Hn is not a random sample, it is very self selective.
tbrownaw 4y ago
1b) Bob actually has a bit of self-awareness, nothing happens. 1c) Bob gets annoyed and tries to leave, but all the offers aren't really better.
Epa095 4y ago
[citation needed]. Is there no market here? No other companies which sees the opportunity to grab you?