5 ms·

How the FBI uses laws to spy on foreign terrorists to spy on you

41 points by cascom 4y ago

anonymousiam 4y ago
I guess we had better call law enforcement to get the FBI prosecuted, and get them to start following the law. Who do we call? Certainly not the FBI. Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
- wolverine876 4y ago
  We elect people to Congress and to the White House.
  - anonymousiam 4y ago
    Yes, and who "we" are has changed significantly over time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Presidential_elections_popular_votes_since_1900.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Presidential_elections...
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  > I guess we had better call law enforcement to get the FBI prosecuted, and get them to start following the law. Who do we call? Certainly not the FBI. >Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? I don't speak latin, so I can't respond to your second point, but part of why I have been posting so anxiously lately is because I actually was groomed to join them, but decided not to due to all the illegal behavior. Right when I was close to reconsidering, since I have a genuine interest in defensive cyber stuff + counter intel (in a nonpolitical way), I saw one of the teachers who used to terrorize me because she was convinced I was some kind of future spree killer running up on the capital as The FBI is worse than useless -- they divert resources away from useful work to terrorize anyone left of neoliberal.[0,1] When "my way" is just a return to Reagan era tax brackets[2], and using the money to fund things like... the EPA... which was established by the noted violent communist Richard Nixon[3] ;-) [0] If I was posting from Germany I'd identify a member of the social democratic party, if I was Canadian I'd be in the New Democratic Party... and in the USA I'm "not a Democrat" and thus fair game to be denied employment and harassed as if I'll start guillotining people at any moment if I don't get my way. [1] https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/ https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po... [2] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/87inintxr.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/87inintxr.pdf [3] https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa
  - anonymousiam 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...
    - dontbenebby 4y ago
      Oh that phrase. It's me. I watch them :-) (I'm just one guy though.)
daniel-cussen 4y ago
Absolute least of my worries. Maybe if they spy on me enough they can figure out whodunnit when I get murdered, I'd really appreciate that.
- fsflover 4y ago
  This is completely missing the point of why one needs privacy. Lack of it harms journalism and activism, making the government too powerful and not accountable. If only activists and journalists will try to have the privacy, it will be much easier to target them. Everyone should have privacy to protect them. It’s sort of like freedom of speech is necessary not just for journalists, but for everyone, even if you have nothing to say.
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    Well I want privacy from other things, I do. It just so happens the FBI isn't in my threat model, to the contrary of what the ACLU and civil liberty advocates talk about. I really didn't expect it to turn out that way. Privacy is kind of a fantasy, though. The concept of privacy. There's a quintillion amplifiers made every year (ie transistors), and that rate is increasing rapidly. Moore's law is essentially antithetical to actual privacy, meaning nobody knowing your secret. What there is is keeping a low profile and avoiding emphasis on what you don't want amplified and repeated. Working the system.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      The number of transistors does not affect the privacy. It's how they are used. Try free software, which respects users. Works for me (by increasing the cost to spy, which is enough for the goal I stated). >What there is is keeping a low profile and avoiding emphasis on what you don't want amplified and repeated. Working the system. How is this helping anyone? If you have no privacy, your own emphasis doesn't matter.
      - daniel-cussen 4y ago
Overtonwindow 4y ago
Perhaps controversial but I think the FBI should have its policing powers taken away, and reverted back to a scientific agency that assists law enforcement, not investigate and make arrests of its own.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Who does national-level policing? There are national-level crimes, such as espionage and terrorism, and others that require national-scale resources.
  - rschneid 4y ago
    Somehow I don't think this country will have trouble finding folks to perform 'national-level policing'. From pop culture, I've gleaned that it's more often the opposite case: investigations are fragmented as a result of multiple organizations pursuing cases in their bureaucratic 'information silos.' Here's a list of all of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law_enforcement_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law_enforcement_in_the... Ironic that one of the FBI's self-reported 'priorities' is to 'Protect civil rights.' I wonder how much longer Hanlon's razor will be a plausible excuse for this kind of lying...
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      I know about the other organizations, but are they any better in your eyes than the FBI? AFAIK, the DHS can be much more aggressive, perhaps lacking the Justice Dept's oversight.
wolverine876 4y ago
When issues like this come up, people say 'there's nothing we can do'. People believed they could change law enforcement in SF by recalling the DA, the Trumpists certainly believed they could take over the GOP and win widely, and they did. Why are we so lacking in faith in our enormous power?
trenning 4y ago
They can’t even find the person who put bombs outside the DNC and RNC in freaking Washington DC and the person is on video using a smart phone.

41 points by cascom 4y ago

I guess we had better call law enforcement to get the FBI prosecuted, and get them to start following the law. Who do we call? Certainly not the FBI. Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?

wolverine876 4y ago
We elect people to Congress and to the White House.
- anonymousiam 4y ago
  Yes, and who "we" are has changed significantly over time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Presidential_elections_popular_votes_since_1900.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Presidential_elections...
dontbenebby 4y ago
> I guess we had better call law enforcement to get the FBI prosecuted, and get them to start following the law. Who do we call? Certainly not the FBI. >Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? I don't speak latin, so I can't respond to your second point, but part of why I have been posting so anxiously lately is because I actually was groomed to join them, but decided not to due to all the illegal behavior. Right when I was close to reconsidering, since I have a genuine interest in defensive cyber stuff + counter intel (in a nonpolitical way), I saw one of the teachers who used to terrorize me because she was convinced I was some kind of future spree killer running up on the capital as The FBI is worse than useless -- they divert resources away from useful work to terrorize anyone left of neoliberal.[0,1] When "my way" is just a return to Reagan era tax brackets[2], and using the money to fund things like... the EPA... which was established by the noted violent communist Richard Nixon[3] ;-) [0] If I was posting from Germany I'd identify a member of the social democratic party, if I was Canadian I'd be in the New Democratic Party... and in the USA I'm "not a Democrat" and thus fair game to be denied employment and harassed as if I'll start guillotining people at any moment if I don't get my way. [1] https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/ https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po... [2] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/87inintxr.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/87inintxr.pdf [3] https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa
- anonymousiam 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...
  - dontbenebby 4y ago
    Oh that phrase. It's me. I watch them :-) (I'm just one guy though.)

daniel-cussen 4y ago

Absolute least of my worries. Maybe if they spy on me enough they can figure out whodunnit when I get murdered, I'd really appreciate that.

fsflover 4y ago
This is completely missing the point of why one needs privacy. Lack of it harms journalism and activism, making the government too powerful and not accountable. If only activists and journalists will try to have the privacy, it will be much easier to target them. Everyone should have privacy to protect them. It’s sort of like freedom of speech is necessary not just for journalists, but for everyone, even if you have nothing to say.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Well I want privacy from other things, I do. It just so happens the FBI isn't in my threat model, to the contrary of what the ACLU and civil liberty advocates talk about. I really didn't expect it to turn out that way. Privacy is kind of a fantasy, though. The concept of privacy. There's a quintillion amplifiers made every year (ie transistors), and that rate is increasing rapidly. Moore's law is essentially antithetical to actual privacy, meaning nobody knowing your secret. What there is is keeping a low profile and avoiding emphasis on what you don't want amplified and repeated. Working the system.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    The number of transistors does not affect the privacy. It's how they are used. Try free software, which respects users. Works for me (by increasing the cost to spy, which is enough for the goal I stated). >What there is is keeping a low profile and avoiding emphasis on what you don't want amplified and repeated. Working the system. How is this helping anyone? If you have no privacy, your own emphasis doesn't matter.
    - daniel-cussen 4y ago

Overtonwindow 4y ago

Perhaps controversial but I think the FBI should have its policing powers taken away, and reverted back to a scientific agency that assists law enforcement, not investigate and make arrests of its own.

wolverine876 4y ago
Who does national-level policing? There are national-level crimes, such as espionage and terrorism, and others that require national-scale resources.
- rschneid 4y ago
  Somehow I don't think this country will have trouble finding folks to perform 'national-level policing'. From pop culture, I've gleaned that it's more often the opposite case: investigations are fragmented as a result of multiple organizations pursuing cases in their bureaucratic 'information silos.' Here's a list of all of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law_enforcement_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law_enforcement_in_the... Ironic that one of the FBI's self-reported 'priorities' is to 'Protect civil rights.' I wonder how much longer Hanlon's razor will be a plausible excuse for this kind of lying...
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    I know about the other organizations, but are they any better in your eyes than the FBI? AFAIK, the DHS can be much more aggressive, perhaps lacking the Justice Dept's oversight.

wolverine876 4y ago

When issues like this come up, people say 'there's nothing we can do'. People believed they could change law enforcement in SF by recalling the DA, the Trumpists certainly believed they could take over the GOP and win widely, and they did. Why are we so lacking in faith in our enormous power?

trenning 4y ago

They can’t even find the person who put bombs outside the DNC and RNC in freaking Washington DC and the person is on video using a smart phone.