4 ms·

North Americans, yes. Americans, no. US citizens have a pretty solid claim to that one. But the continent that the UK is part of is called Europe.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
The continent that the US, Cuba, Mexico and Argentina are a part of is called "The Americas", frequently split into "North America" and "South America" because of the isthmus at its center. Yes, there's a problem that residents of the United States of America (just one country within North America/the Americas) adopted the term "American" to describe (mostly) only themselves. But there are plenty of sporting and diplomatic events that make clear that "American" has broader meaning than "the USA". The situation in the UK is different from the situation with, say, residents of the USA and Mexico. The latter are separated by an arbitrary and mobile political boundary that in many place can be walked across rather easily (even where the boundary is the Rio Grande). The UK is an island and this has created both a physical boundary with the rest of the continent and (largely because of that) a centuries old sense of isolation. The years that the UK was a part of (initially the EEC and then later) the EU saw a diminishment of that sense of isolation and a growing awareness of the cultural and historical linkage between the people living in the UK and those in the rest of Europe. Cheap and fast travel also contributed to that.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >Yes, there's a problem Yes, "problem" >that residents of the United States of America (just one country within North America/the Americas) adopted the term "American" to describe (mostly) only themselves. The use of America to, in English, refer specifically to the English-speaking residents of North America long precedes 1776. Further, the English language's use of "America/Americans" to refer specifically to the United States and its people as opposed to Chileans or Mexicans is consistent in every major European language except Spanish. >But there are plenty of sporting and diplomatic events that make clear that "American" has broader meaning than "the USA". Yes, the Organization of American States (headquartered in Washington DC) = "plenty of sporting and diplomatic events". I will pose the same question that Veen did elsewhere, regarding the hysterical claim that after Brexit, Britons are no longer European. Are Swiss and Norwegians European? Why, or why not?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    > Yes, the Organization of American States (headquartered in Washington DC) = "plenty of sporting and diplomatic events". Pan American Games / Copa América / Summit of the Americas / Pan American Treaty / I could go on. > I will pose the same question that Veen did elsewhere, regarding the hysterical claim that after Brexit, Britons are no longer European. "Being European" is a relatively new idea that emerged in the aftermath of two world (but euro-centric) wars. It didn't really have a geographic locus per se, but referred to a certain kind of committment to a certain idea of "Europe". The UK did not consider itself part of that idea for several decades after the end of WWII, and arguably a majority of the population never really did (even if they supported the idea "for those people over there"). I have a couple of friends who are long time residents in the USA, but were born in countries within the EU. They don't know each other, but when asked how they think about their status they both reply "I'm a European who lives in the USA". I have a hard time imagining anyone from the UK in the same situation ever saying this.
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      >Pan American Games / Copa América / Summit of the Americas / Pan American Treaty / I could go on. Oh, come now. You yourself acknowledged that "the Americas" refers to North and South America. I don't need to explain why "Pan American" isn't the same thing as "American". And as I said before, the English use of "America/American" to specifically refer to the USA and its people is shared by all European languages other than Spanish. >"Being European" is a relatively new idea that emerged in the aftermath of two world (but euro-centric) wars. It didn't really have a geographic locus per se, but referred to a certain kind of committment to a certain idea of "Europe". The UK did not consider itself part of that idea for several decades after the end of WWII, and arguably a majority of the population never really did (even if they supported the idea "for those people over there"). I don't disagree at all about the historical distinguishing between the UK and "Europe". (Insert "FOG COVERS CHANNEL / EUROPE CUT OFF" anecdote here.) But that is orthogonal to whether Brexit made the UK suddenly not "European" (at least, any more than before), as the other poster's wailing claimed. You also didn't answer my/Venn's question. Are the Swiss and Norwegians European, and why/why not? Now, it's entirely possible that, should the EU survive, perhaps a century from now, "Europe/European" will refer specifically to the EU and its residents. But we're not there yet and not even the most fanatic pro-EU Remainer in the UK would claim this. (The relevance of this question to the aforementioned discussion of "America/American"'s meaning is left as an exercise for the reader.)

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

The continent that the US, Cuba, Mexico and Argentina are a part of is called "The Americas", frequently split into "North America" and "South America" because of the isthmus at its center. Yes, there's a problem that residents of the United States of America (just one country within North America/the Americas) adopted the term "American" to describe (mostly) only themselves. But there are plenty of sporting and diplomatic events that make clear that "American" has broader meaning than "the USA". The situation in the UK is different from the situation with, say, residents of the USA and Mexico. The latter are separated by an arbitrary and mobile political boundary that in many place can be walked across rather easily (even where the boundary is the Rio Grande). The UK is an island and this has created both a physical boundary with the rest of the continent and (largely because of that) a centuries old sense of isolation. The years that the UK was a part of (initially the EEC and then later) the EU saw a diminishment of that sense of isolation and a growing awareness of the cultural and historical linkage between the people living in the UK and those in the rest of Europe. Cheap and fast travel also contributed to that.

TMWNN 4y ago
>Yes, there's a problem Yes, "problem" >that residents of the United States of America (just one country within North America/the Americas) adopted the term "American" to describe (mostly) only themselves. The use of America to, in English, refer specifically to the English-speaking residents of North America long precedes 1776. Further, the English language's use of "America/Americans" to refer specifically to the United States and its people as opposed to Chileans or Mexicans is consistent in every major European language except Spanish. >But there are plenty of sporting and diplomatic events that make clear that "American" has broader meaning than "the USA". Yes, the Organization of American States (headquartered in Washington DC) = "plenty of sporting and diplomatic events". I will pose the same question that Veen did elsewhere, regarding the hysterical claim that after Brexit, Britons are no longer European. Are Swiss and Norwegians European? Why, or why not?
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  > Yes, the Organization of American States (headquartered in Washington DC) = "plenty of sporting and diplomatic events". Pan American Games / Copa América / Summit of the Americas / Pan American Treaty / I could go on. > I will pose the same question that Veen did elsewhere, regarding the hysterical claim that after Brexit, Britons are no longer European. "Being European" is a relatively new idea that emerged in the aftermath of two world (but euro-centric) wars. It didn't really have a geographic locus per se, but referred to a certain kind of committment to a certain idea of "Europe". The UK did not consider itself part of that idea for several decades after the end of WWII, and arguably a majority of the population never really did (even if they supported the idea "for those people over there"). I have a couple of friends who are long time residents in the USA, but were born in countries within the EU. They don't know each other, but when asked how they think about their status they both reply "I'm a European who lives in the USA". I have a hard time imagining anyone from the UK in the same situation ever saying this.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    >Pan American Games / Copa América / Summit of the Americas / Pan American Treaty / I could go on. Oh, come now. You yourself acknowledged that "the Americas" refers to North and South America. I don't need to explain why "Pan American" isn't the same thing as "American". And as I said before, the English use of "America/American" to specifically refer to the USA and its people is shared by all European languages other than Spanish. >"Being European" is a relatively new idea that emerged in the aftermath of two world (but euro-centric) wars. It didn't really have a geographic locus per se, but referred to a certain kind of committment to a certain idea of "Europe". The UK did not consider itself part of that idea for several decades after the end of WWII, and arguably a majority of the population never really did (even if they supported the idea "for those people over there"). I don't disagree at all about the historical distinguishing between the UK and "Europe". (Insert "FOG COVERS CHANNEL / EUROPE CUT OFF" anecdote here.) But that is orthogonal to whether Brexit made the UK suddenly not "European" (at least, any more than before), as the other poster's wailing claimed. You also didn't answer my/Venn's question. Are the Swiss and Norwegians European, and why/why not? Now, it's entirely possible that, should the EU survive, perhaps a century from now, "Europe/European" will refer specifically to the EU and its residents. But we're not there yet and not even the most fanatic pro-EU Remainer in the UK would claim this. (The relevance of this question to the aforementioned discussion of "America/American"'s meaning is left as an exercise for the reader.)