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> So how did they do the replication? With students at the University of Amsterdam!” Gilbert said. “They had Dutch students watch a video of Stanford students,

> So how did they do the replication? With students at the University of Amsterdam!” Gilbert said. “They had Dutch students watch a video of Stanford students, speaking in English, about affirmative action policies at a university more than 5000 miles away.” In other words, unlike the participants in the original study, participants in the replication study watched students at a foreign university speaking in a foreign language about an issue of no relevance to them! I'm sorry what? Does the author think that there are no black people in Amsterdam? Or no affirmative action? Or that Dutch students don't understand English? Race relations aren't the same in the US as in the Netherlands, but the "no relevance to them" comment is going a little far imho.

bigDinosaur 4y ago
I wouldn't really say it's relevant to watch a video from a specific university if you're not from that university. I don't think they're saying that 'affirmative action' is not a relevant topic in some way, only that 'affirmative action at Stanford' specifically is not relevant to a Dutch student.
jandrese 4y ago
I think the idea is that the Dutch students wouldn’t have the same underlying racism that the American students acquire in their lifetime due to the lingering effects of slavery. The whole point of the original study presumably being to study unconscious bias due to cultural conditioning. A better study might have tried to replicate it using Dutch students in the video and a distinctly Romani student as the object of discrimination.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  I think the idea is that all of the above hypotheses are variables that indeed might be relevant, and we don’t know which they are.
- radarsat1 4y ago
  > I think the idea is that the Dutch students wouldn’t have the same underlying racism that the American students acquire in their lifetime due to the lingering effects of slavery. I mean... the Dutch had slaves. I'm sorry, I don't know how else to spell this out. The Dutch were slavers, just like the English. There are generations of black people living in the Netherlands for the same reason they are in the United States. Many of the slaves that came to America were brought on Dutch ships. They did outlaw it earlier, I think. But there are tons of racial issues in NL. I know I'm getting downvoted but I find this attitude that racism is somehow unique to the US to be pretty narrow to be honest.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    The Netherlands weren't founded with slavery as a core tenant though. It was something that largely happened in the colonies, far away from the bulk of the population, and once freed they were no longer of any concern. It would have been different if they had shipped in enormous numbers of slaves to work the Polders and then had to find something for them to do once they were emancipated. This is why the US has so many lingering issues, when the slaves were freed the former masters realized very quickly that they would lose power should they organize, and thus had to immediately set up numerous systems of oppression to prevent this from happening. I'm guessing the former slaves were a fairly tiny minority of the population and thus never a danger to the ruling class so there was no need to actively oppress them.
michaelt 4y ago
> I'm sorry what? Does the author think that there are no black people in Amsterdam? No, but if I'm going to reproduce your recipe for muffins and announce whether it works or not, I gotta follow your recipe. If I swap the chocolate chips for blueberries and the muscovado sugar for maple syrup and the muffins come out wrong, I can hardly claim I've proven your recipe is wrong.
- radarsat1 4y ago
  sure, i get that, but it doesn't speak much to the generalizability of the study if it literally can't be reproduced outside Stanford. And sure, then they should have designed it differently for Dutch participants. But then they'd be accused of doing a different study and not reproducing it.

bigDinosaur 4y ago

I wouldn't really say it's relevant to watch a video from a specific university if you're not from that university. I don't think they're saying that 'affirmative action' is not a relevant topic in some way, only that 'affirmative action at Stanford' specifically is not relevant to a Dutch student.

jandrese 4y ago

I think the idea is that the Dutch students wouldn’t have the same underlying racism that the American students acquire in their lifetime due to the lingering effects of slavery. The whole point of the original study presumably being to study unconscious bias due to cultural conditioning. A better study might have tried to replicate it using Dutch students in the video and a distinctly Romani student as the object of discrimination.

ethanbond 4y ago
I think the idea is that all of the above hypotheses are variables that indeed might be relevant, and we don’t know which they are.
radarsat1 4y ago
> I think the idea is that the Dutch students wouldn’t have the same underlying racism that the American students acquire in their lifetime due to the lingering effects of slavery. I mean... the Dutch had slaves. I'm sorry, I don't know how else to spell this out. The Dutch were slavers, just like the English. There are generations of black people living in the Netherlands for the same reason they are in the United States. Many of the slaves that came to America were brought on Dutch ships. They did outlaw it earlier, I think. But there are tons of racial issues in NL. I know I'm getting downvoted but I find this attitude that racism is somehow unique to the US to be pretty narrow to be honest.
- jandrese 4y ago
  The Netherlands weren't founded with slavery as a core tenant though. It was something that largely happened in the colonies, far away from the bulk of the population, and once freed they were no longer of any concern. It would have been different if they had shipped in enormous numbers of slaves to work the Polders and then had to find something for them to do once they were emancipated. This is why the US has so many lingering issues, when the slaves were freed the former masters realized very quickly that they would lose power should they organize, and thus had to immediately set up numerous systems of oppression to prevent this from happening. I'm guessing the former slaves were a fairly tiny minority of the population and thus never a danger to the ruling class so there was no need to actively oppress them.

michaelt 4y ago

> I'm sorry what? Does the author think that there are no black people in Amsterdam? No, but if I'm going to reproduce your recipe for muffins and announce whether it works or not, I gotta follow your recipe. If I swap the chocolate chips for blueberries and the muscovado sugar for maple syrup and the muffins come out wrong, I can hardly claim I've proven your recipe is wrong.

radarsat1 4y ago
sure, i get that, but it doesn't speak much to the generalizability of the study if it literally can't be reproduced outside Stanford. And sure, then they should have designed it differently for Dutch participants. But then they'd be accused of doing a different study and not reproducing it.