9 ms·

CJEU confirms that UK citizens have lost EU citizenship

49 points by robtherobber 4y ago

tgv 4y ago
Who files these lawsuits? I can't imagine anybody in their right mind would have thought they could win it. Is this just for the lawyers' 15 minutes of fame?
- rvnx 4y ago
  "your country left EU, to be allowed to vote in the EU you need to be a legal resident of the EU" - omg! so unfair
  - smcl 4y ago
    That's a very dishonest and childish way to summarise the case. She is a legal long-term resident in an EU nation - France - having lived there for >15 years. However long-term residency status alone does not permit you to vote in local elections, you have to be a full-blown citizen. And given that you cannot vote in UK elections if you've lived abroad for more than fifteen years, she is now in a sort of limbo where she doesn't really have any local representation. There are many stupid things regarding Brexit (primarily, that it took place at all) but this was a worthwhile thing to try to resolve even if it was a bit of a long shot.
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      > And given that you cannot vote in UK elections if you've lived abroad for more than fifteen years, she is now in a sort of limbo where she doesn't really have any local representation. I don't really think that should be relevant to France's laws. Britain could after all change their laws. But I do think this woman should be able to vote in these local elections as a legal resident. That should be the case regardless of citizenship. But it seems that would require changes to French law.
    - mixtur2021 4y ago
      Isn't this a larger issue with France's voting system? Isn't residency status more democratic than citzenship based requirements?
      - smcl 4y ago
        Yep it would seem so
- CogitoCogito 4y ago
  I think anyone living in France (or anywhere else) legally should be allowed to vote in local elections. So I think the laws should be changed to allow this Brit to vote in these elections. Of course that's a bit beside the point in the case though. I guess that option is only open to EU citizens. I find that odd, but I guess that's the law.
  - wiredfool 4y ago
    Depends on the locality. I, as a US citizen living in Ireland can vote in local council elections.
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      Yeah there are many places that allow this sort of thing. I think France should as well.
- TimPC 4y ago
  I have some sympathy with the filer. EU citizenship meant that living in France for 15+ years didn’t grant a separate citizenship and suddenly the filer could not vote anywhere as a result of being absent from Britain too long. Realistic countries need to process citizenship for former EU citizens who have been living in their country for long enough to achieve citizenship.
  - lrem 4y ago
    With 15 years of residence, I believe they're eligible to apply immediately. They'll just need to pass the language test and the culture/history test. Get the background checks and the other processes done.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      They are likely not legally allowed to remain in France at the present time. They do not have French citizenship, nor a residency permit, since none was required while they had EU citizenship. This will complicate (though perhaps not bar) any citizenship application.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    If the filer can prove that they speak French and have knowledge of French culture, they can gain French citizenship. It might require taking a few classes, but the most difficult hurdle (having lived there (legally?) for over five years) has been passed. It'll take them more effort, but after living in France for long enough to lose UK voting rights I should hope that the rest of the citizenship requirements should be easy. This assumes the filer wants French citizenship, obviously: if they want to stick with permanent residence but still want to vote then there's no solution, you can't have it both ways.
- schnitzelstoat 4y ago
  Why? It's about municipal elections not government elections. In the UK any resident can vote in municipal elections - there is no citizenship requirement.
  - tgv 4y ago
    That right was based on EU citizenship. So they didn't ask for the right to vote in France, but to retain EU citizenship. Super logical.
enlyth 4y ago
Can someone smarter than me explain what this means in simpler terms? I feel a bit lost after reading this, I hold triple citizenship (Canadian, Slovak, UK) and live in the UK, but not sure how this affects me
- the_svd_doctor 4y ago
  If you’re Slovak this clearly does not affect you. Slovakia is still in the EU.
- pavlov 4y ago
  Your Slovakian citizenship means you retain EU citizenship, so you’re not affected.
  - enlyth 4y ago
    Ah okay thanks, I had a feeling this was the case, although Slovakia is a bit funny about dual citizenships (I think officially it's not allowed, but a grey area)
    - samsk 4y ago
      Yeah, I wouldn't talk too much anywhere about having multiple citizenship in multiple countries, and especially not in Slovakia, because it can be taken away from you.
- ben_w 4y ago
  IANAL, but I think it means the "EU citizenship" is merely a convenient shorthand for "citizenship of an EU member state" and not a citizenship in its own right. As Slovakia is a member state of the EU, this will not itself directly affect you.
- maverwa 4y ago
  Basically UK citizens living in the EU can not vote in local elections anymore, as UK left the EU and therefore they „citizen of an EU member state“ requirement is no longer fulfilled. I am not a lawyer, nor do I know more details, but I would guess it should not change anything for you, as your slovakian citizenship should suffice. [edit] first version was missing a crucial „Not“
darkteflon 4y ago
Won’t ever forgive or forget Brexit. Took away our rights, and the rights of our kids, to live in Europe and to be European. My contempt is boundless. Edit: Bit surprised at some of these responses. You absolutely can use the word “European” to mean “a participant in the political project that is Europe”. This has nothing to do with ethnicity.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  - ChrisKnott 4y ago
    We were never Chinese...? We literally lost the rights of EU citizens, for example to retire in Tuscany.
  - tomwojcik 4y ago
    Last I checked UK wasn't located in Asia or Africa.
    - pjc50 4y ago
      Funny thing is that the Commonwealth used to convey a kind of free movement; and prior to that Empire citizens had the right to migrate to the UK. This was ended when people started actually using it in large numbers.
    - marginalia_nu 4y ago
      They've held India, Hong Kong, Egypt, South Africa, etc.
  - gnomewascool 4y ago
    I assume that you're objecting to the use of the word "right" as opposed to, say, "privilege"? The EU itself phrases freedom of movement as a "right"[0]. Arguably, every human should have the right to move to any country they want to, and in an ideal world every human would have that right. That is obviously not the case now, but the rolling back of the partial progress that had been made, and the consequent creation of a boundary between the UK and the remainder of the EU that hadn't existed previously, is rightly condemned. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/pages/glossary/right-free-movement_en https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/pages/glossary/right-free-...
dijit 4y ago
I'm sorry that the lady couldn't vote, perhaps she should apply for citizenship to the country she lives in if she wants to vote. In Sweden "Settled" people can only vote for local governments, not for the Riksdag (Parliament).. that privilege is for citizens only, for example. But, it's hardly "weird" that British people do not have EU citizenship automatically anymore, EU citizenship is granted on top of your normal citizenship if your country is a member of the EU, which the UK no longer is. The same mechanism that turned Brits to EU citizens in the 70s is the same process by which those rights are no longer applicable to British citizens today, what did people think they were voting for? Surely this is Hardly "news", or maybe I'm too optimistic about how much people understand about the politics of the world around them. I would expect expats to know more than the usual uninformed (or misinformed) British citizen living domestically.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  > what did people think they were voting for? Brexiters did, indeed, in general, think they were voting to strip the rest of us of our rights, and they succeeded in doing so - they thought that this was worth "protecting us from Brussels" or preventing immigration or that it would mean £350 million a week to the NHS or whatever else. This court case (and a handful of similar ones) was a last-ditch attempt of people stripped of their rights to keep them.
- schnitzelstoat 4y ago
  Yeah, but my understanding is the case was about municipal elections (like the local mayor/council etc.) In the UK the rules are the same as Sweden where any resident can vote. But it seems many countries have citizenship requirements even for the municipal elections.
  - przemub 4y ago
    The UK has citizenship requirements as well. British, Irish and Commonwealth citizen residents can vote. In local elections only, EU citizens can vote as well. This is because the EU forces that right, and the UK has not repealed it (yet?).
- 4y ago
tsujp 4y ago
As a Brit this (Brexit) pisses me off to no end. The fact that my ability to trivially work and live in Europe is now robbed from me because of the Brexit referendum based on lies to sway the masses to vote for it means dreams I have about essentially trying even country in Europe for work, play, and general life is a lot harder. Yeah, no one likes a vote not turning out in their favour (in case it isn't obvious I voted to remain) but this feels a lot more life changing to me (a 27 year old) because I still have a lot of my life ahead of me.
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  In today's world, it is clear that the old voters are robbing the young of a lifestyle that the young want. The old live with a mental model that is far removed from what the young want.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Worse: they're far removed from responsibility. They vote to break things and are insulated from the results.
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Right now your post is heavily downvoted, but I see this trend in the US as well. A generation that benefited from good government generally decided "eh, things are going well, let's make everything harder for our children" and pulled up the ladder that they had just climbed.
  - DeusExMachina 4y ago
    If you want to make it an "old vs. young" argument, then the old have collectively contributed to their country far more than the young. So they definitely have a say in their country's policies. The young from the UK can still apply for a visa, like the young from many other countries not in the EU. They also have a higher chance of getting one, probably.
  - danjac 4y ago
    I think the division was between the educated and non-educated (i.e. early school leavers). As the school leaving age has risen over the past few decades, that happened to track with age. In other words, Brexit voters were what you could diplomatically call "low information voters" (I'd call them "thick racist dipshits" but that's probably why I'm not a politician). Another factor is that the core Brexit (and Conservative) voters are retired home-owners, who are less directly connected to the productive side of the economy. The media they consume keeps them in that fantasy bubble. Take the Daily Express for example, which has reality-defying headlines that would put the North Korean Ministry of Information to shame. So other than some clues (rising prices that can be blamed on global conditions, longer queues at airports that can be blamed on staff shortages and so on) they probably believe Brexit is going just fine.
itcrowd 4y ago
To summarize: EU citizens can vote in local elections in France. After Brexit, a Brit who lives in France was denied voting right due to purported (now confirmed) lost EU citizenship. Meaning British citizens are officially not EU citizens anymore. (barring dual citizens)
hihihihi1234 4y ago
Um... how is this news? We left the EU in January 2020. I'm not sure what it would mean for Britain to leave the EU without Brits losing EU citizenship, and I've never heard anyone suggest that this might be the case. It's nearly six years since the referendum - who exactly is surprised by this "development"?
- easytiger 4y ago
  Apparently some people have yet to vent their impotent rage having missed the chance over the last 7 years
  - mixtur2021 4y ago
    I have noticed an unhealthy obsession and inability to move on. I speak from someone who would have voted to remain. Yes it wasn't perhaps my choice, but trying to relive the result repeatedly with the same vitriol anger isn't healthy. Even more so defining your identity around it e.g. FBPE (Follow back, Pro EU) on Twitter. It also doesn't help the rejoin cause to spew such negativity and hatred at the other 50% of the population.
    - easytiger 4y ago
      I think this quite accurate. I too voted remain. The clever thing the EU did was hide it's deeds from wider observation. Subsequent to light being shed, i find it to be about the most sinister and vile organisation it is possible to imagine. Even then, ignoring my personal feelings, it is obvious these people over invested themselves with a fairly inconsequential team and are over compensating for it. Look at the news on veto removal today. Only a hardcore shill would defend this organisation.
truthwhisperer 4y ago
macinjosh 4y ago
Congratulations to my fellow brits!
mrtksn 4y ago
Brexit is a tragedy that happened as a play of few people's political career. Now British people need to go through the EU bureaucracy to have a life in EU and the EU citizens need to go through UK bureaucracy to have a life in UK. For what? Interesting fact: fear of immigration has evaporated after Brexit, despite that immigration to UK has increased. Maybe the Brexiters finally sleep well knowing that "they have control over their borders" or maybe the the media campaign of fear mongering died off.[0] I'm very sorry that UK citizens lost their EU citizenship, British are part of Europe and have a huge positive impact. I'm sorry that you will need to pay fees, fill forms, get employment rejections due to non-meritocratic reasons like paperwork and visa. Putting the government as the first line in the human resources is just beyond me. Feels like we are treated like cattle and persons need to prove worthiness to work and stay with us to the bureaucrats. It's not even the rules of immigration, which might make sense in certain situation but the act of working through the process itself is dehumanising. It's not enough to find a job that pays above certain amount or considered in demand, you need to spend money and time to expose yourself to someone who doesn't know you and has no business in your dealings and hope that they find you worthy. [0] https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1532041219601223682 https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1532041219601223682
noodlesUK 4y ago
The thing that is so frustrating is that the so called "European Question" is far from resolved in the UK. Brexit may be done in the EU, but it's going to be something of an original sin in UK politics for decades to come. The current Brexit deal would never have been voted for by the UK population had it been presented during the referendum. I see an alternate past where the UK had effectively become Switzerland or Norway, and potentially a future where it still does (once the current regime is out of the way and wounds are allowed to heal). Brexit would have just been an interesting bit of historical trivia had that come to pass. I'll never give up on the European Project personally, and it makes me deeply sad to cross the border and not have the Union Citizenship I always cherished. If it had been an option due to my ancestry, I would have gotten an alternative EU passport (as many if not most of my friends have). Brexit has made it infinitely more difficult to bring my fiancee into the country (in a bygone era we would have just Surinder Singh-ed as it's next to impossible for self-employed people to reunite with family in the UK), and has deeply degraded democracy in the UK (see proroguing parliament).
jeroenhd 4y ago
I feel for the Remainers, especially those living or working internationally. The result of this lawsuit isn't very surprising at all (turns out leaving the EU means you don't get EU benefits anymore and your country's limitations on voting aren't another country's fault) but sadly what's done is done. The UK didn't want freedom of movement/settlement with the EU and it was clear from the start that the EU wasn't going to grant rights to UK citizens the UK wasn't going to grant to the EU. The only recourse here would be for UK citizens to apply for European citizenship in a member state of their choice, but that's a long, complicated process, not dissimilar to the process of becoming a recognised UK citizen. It's also incredibly difficult if you're not highly-skilled, already living abroad and/or have access to exchange programs that offer a way in, such as access to education. For the person in question, this should be easy: France requires that you've lived there for five years, have knowledge of France and speak French, something I'd expect should be quite doable if you've lived there for fifteen years. The UK allows for double citizenship, so I think there's an easy way out for people in such situations without giving up any rights in the home country, much easier than for most people who come to France from outside the EU.
- flir 4y ago
  Ireland is the simplest backdoor, if you meet the criteria (I don't).
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    That makes sense. I do hope the tensions around the northern Irish border situation won't impede UK citizens even more in the years to come. The way the UK seems to be coming back on their promises paints a grim image for things to come.
    - mixtur2021 4y ago
      What are you suggesting here? That the UK wants to unwind the Common Travel Agreement? The NI situation is very loaded, it doesn't helpful such a fragile situation with a "UK is bad" narrative. Ultimately, the goal is to try and preserve peace.
frozencell 4y ago
Why does the title feel like it is about Russia? Perhaps they are the same people behind Brexit and Ruxit.
creativeembassy 4y ago
"Oh no, the consequences of my own actions!" It's stunning to watch videos of Britons confused about why they've lost certain privileges, only a short while after voting to leave the place that gave them those privileges. It's like canceling your gym membership because it's too expensive, then wanting to fight the manager because they won't let you work out there anymore. I have so much sympathy for those that knew what Brexit meant, tried to fight it, and lost the vote. I've been mentally comparing this to the 2016 US election where an (electoral) majority got Trump elected as President. But we still have large swathes of the US population that were VERY happy with all 4 years of his presidency. I'm curious how many Britons in 2016 were similarly as vocal for their support of the referendum, and are still just as happy today with the results.
- urgentmsg1 4y ago
- pjc50 4y ago
  I think even among Brexiteers an awareness is starting to dawn that no alleged benefits have been delivered. And the fight over Northern Ireland is still ongoing.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  > It's stunning to watch videos of Britons confused about why they've lost certain privileges, only a short while after voting to leave Have you consided that some of the people who are confused about this DID NOT VOTE TO LEAVE? That they are confused because nobody explained, or could explain, at the time of the Brexit, that these wouldbe the consequences? The Leave campaign was (at best) disingenous about the consequences; the Remain campaign could not predict all the consequences because that would require an actual deal to analyze.
drumhead 4y ago
You can still work or live in the EU, nothings stopping you. You can go through the process to become a citizen of an EU country just like anyone else. That's the new reality. We're not going to rejoin because no one will vote to have Schengen imposed on them, or to have a single currency or to make transfers of billions of pounds to the Commission. You can either live with it or move to the EU. But sulking about it isn't the most constructive option.
- urgentmsg1 4y ago

49 points by robtherobber 4y ago

tgv 4y ago

Who files these lawsuits? I can't imagine anybody in their right mind would have thought they could win it. Is this just for the lawyers' 15 minutes of fame?

rvnx 4y ago
"your country left EU, to be allowed to vote in the EU you need to be a legal resident of the EU" - omg! so unfair
- smcl 4y ago
  That's a very dishonest and childish way to summarise the case. She is a legal long-term resident in an EU nation - France - having lived there for >15 years. However long-term residency status alone does not permit you to vote in local elections, you have to be a full-blown citizen. And given that you cannot vote in UK elections if you've lived abroad for more than fifteen years, she is now in a sort of limbo where she doesn't really have any local representation. There are many stupid things regarding Brexit (primarily, that it took place at all) but this was a worthwhile thing to try to resolve even if it was a bit of a long shot.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    > And given that you cannot vote in UK elections if you've lived abroad for more than fifteen years, she is now in a sort of limbo where she doesn't really have any local representation. I don't really think that should be relevant to France's laws. Britain could after all change their laws. But I do think this woman should be able to vote in these local elections as a legal resident. That should be the case regardless of citizenship. But it seems that would require changes to French law.
  - mixtur2021 4y ago
    Isn't this a larger issue with France's voting system? Isn't residency status more democratic than citzenship based requirements?
    - smcl 4y ago
      Yep it would seem so
CogitoCogito 4y ago
I think anyone living in France (or anywhere else) legally should be allowed to vote in local elections. So I think the laws should be changed to allow this Brit to vote in these elections. Of course that's a bit beside the point in the case though. I guess that option is only open to EU citizens. I find that odd, but I guess that's the law.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  Depends on the locality. I, as a US citizen living in Ireland can vote in local council elections.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    Yeah there are many places that allow this sort of thing. I think France should as well.
TimPC 4y ago
I have some sympathy with the filer. EU citizenship meant that living in France for 15+ years didn’t grant a separate citizenship and suddenly the filer could not vote anywhere as a result of being absent from Britain too long. Realistic countries need to process citizenship for former EU citizens who have been living in their country for long enough to achieve citizenship.
- lrem 4y ago
  With 15 years of residence, I believe they're eligible to apply immediately. They'll just need to pass the language test and the culture/history test. Get the background checks and the other processes done.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    They are likely not legally allowed to remain in France at the present time. They do not have French citizenship, nor a residency permit, since none was required while they had EU citizenship. This will complicate (though perhaps not bar) any citizenship application.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  If the filer can prove that they speak French and have knowledge of French culture, they can gain French citizenship. It might require taking a few classes, but the most difficult hurdle (having lived there (legally?) for over five years) has been passed. It'll take them more effort, but after living in France for long enough to lose UK voting rights I should hope that the rest of the citizenship requirements should be easy. This assumes the filer wants French citizenship, obviously: if they want to stick with permanent residence but still want to vote then there's no solution, you can't have it both ways.
schnitzelstoat 4y ago
Why? It's about municipal elections not government elections. In the UK any resident can vote in municipal elections - there is no citizenship requirement.
- tgv 4y ago
  That right was based on EU citizenship. So they didn't ask for the right to vote in France, but to retain EU citizenship. Super logical.

enlyth 4y ago

Can someone smarter than me explain what this means in simpler terms? I feel a bit lost after reading this, I hold triple citizenship (Canadian, Slovak, UK) and live in the UK, but not sure how this affects me

the_svd_doctor 4y ago
If you’re Slovak this clearly does not affect you. Slovakia is still in the EU.
pavlov 4y ago
Your Slovakian citizenship means you retain EU citizenship, so you’re not affected.
- enlyth 4y ago
  Ah okay thanks, I had a feeling this was the case, although Slovakia is a bit funny about dual citizenships (I think officially it's not allowed, but a grey area)
  - samsk 4y ago
    Yeah, I wouldn't talk too much anywhere about having multiple citizenship in multiple countries, and especially not in Slovakia, because it can be taken away from you.
ben_w 4y ago
IANAL, but I think it means the "EU citizenship" is merely a convenient shorthand for "citizenship of an EU member state" and not a citizenship in its own right. As Slovakia is a member state of the EU, this will not itself directly affect you.
maverwa 4y ago
Basically UK citizens living in the EU can not vote in local elections anymore, as UK left the EU and therefore they „citizen of an EU member state“ requirement is no longer fulfilled. I am not a lawyer, nor do I know more details, but I would guess it should not change anything for you, as your slovakian citizenship should suffice. [edit] first version was missing a crucial „Not“

darkteflon 4y ago

Won’t ever forgive or forget Brexit. Took away our rights, and the rights of our kids, to live in Europe and to be European. My contempt is boundless. Edit: Bit surprised at some of these responses. You absolutely can use the word “European” to mean “a participant in the political project that is Europe”. This has nothing to do with ethnicity.

dahfizz 4y ago
- ChrisKnott 4y ago
  We were never Chinese...? We literally lost the rights of EU citizens, for example to retire in Tuscany.
- tomwojcik 4y ago
  Last I checked UK wasn't located in Asia or Africa.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    Funny thing is that the Commonwealth used to convey a kind of free movement; and prior to that Empire citizens had the right to migrate to the UK. This was ended when people started actually using it in large numbers.
  - marginalia_nu 4y ago
    They've held India, Hong Kong, Egypt, South Africa, etc.
- gnomewascool 4y ago
  I assume that you're objecting to the use of the word "right" as opposed to, say, "privilege"? The EU itself phrases freedom of movement as a "right"[0]. Arguably, every human should have the right to move to any country they want to, and in an ideal world every human would have that right. That is obviously not the case now, but the rolling back of the partial progress that had been made, and the consequent creation of a boundary between the UK and the remainder of the EU that hadn't existed previously, is rightly condemned. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/pages/glossary/right-free-movement_en https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/pages/glossary/right-free-...

dijit 4y ago

I'm sorry that the lady couldn't vote, perhaps she should apply for citizenship to the country she lives in if she wants to vote. In Sweden "Settled" people can only vote for local governments, not for the Riksdag (Parliament).. that privilege is for citizens only, for example. But, it's hardly "weird" that British people do not have EU citizenship automatically anymore, EU citizenship is granted on top of your normal citizenship if your country is a member of the EU, which the UK no longer is. The same mechanism that turned Brits to EU citizens in the 70s is the same process by which those rights are no longer applicable to British citizens today, what did people think they were voting for? Surely this is Hardly "news", or maybe I'm too optimistic about how much people understand about the politics of the world around them. I would expect expats to know more than the usual uninformed (or misinformed) British citizen living domestically.

solar-ice 4y ago
> what did people think they were voting for? Brexiters did, indeed, in general, think they were voting to strip the rest of us of our rights, and they succeeded in doing so - they thought that this was worth "protecting us from Brussels" or preventing immigration or that it would mean £350 million a week to the NHS or whatever else. This court case (and a handful of similar ones) was a last-ditch attempt of people stripped of their rights to keep them.
schnitzelstoat 4y ago
Yeah, but my understanding is the case was about municipal elections (like the local mayor/council etc.) In the UK the rules are the same as Sweden where any resident can vote. But it seems many countries have citizenship requirements even for the municipal elections.
- przemub 4y ago
  The UK has citizenship requirements as well. British, Irish and Commonwealth citizen residents can vote. In local elections only, EU citizens can vote as well. This is because the EU forces that right, and the UK has not repealed it (yet?).
4y ago

tsujp 4y ago

As a Brit this (Brexit) pisses me off to no end. The fact that my ability to trivially work and live in Europe is now robbed from me because of the Brexit referendum based on lies to sway the masses to vote for it means dreams I have about essentially trying even country in Europe for work, play, and general life is a lot harder. Yeah, no one likes a vote not turning out in their favour (in case it isn't obvious I voted to remain) but this feels a lot more life changing to me (a 27 year old) because I still have a lot of my life ahead of me.

nine_zeros 4y ago
In today's world, it is clear that the old voters are robbing the young of a lifestyle that the young want. The old live with a mental model that is far removed from what the young want.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Worse: they're far removed from responsibility. They vote to break things and are insulated from the results.
- epistasis 4y ago
  Right now your post is heavily downvoted, but I see this trend in the US as well. A generation that benefited from good government generally decided "eh, things are going well, let's make everything harder for our children" and pulled up the ladder that they had just climbed.
- DeusExMachina 4y ago
  If you want to make it an "old vs. young" argument, then the old have collectively contributed to their country far more than the young. So they definitely have a say in their country's policies. The young from the UK can still apply for a visa, like the young from many other countries not in the EU. They also have a higher chance of getting one, probably.
- danjac 4y ago
  I think the division was between the educated and non-educated (i.e. early school leavers). As the school leaving age has risen over the past few decades, that happened to track with age. In other words, Brexit voters were what you could diplomatically call "low information voters" (I'd call them "thick racist dipshits" but that's probably why I'm not a politician). Another factor is that the core Brexit (and Conservative) voters are retired home-owners, who are less directly connected to the productive side of the economy. The media they consume keeps them in that fantasy bubble. Take the Daily Express for example, which has reality-defying headlines that would put the North Korean Ministry of Information to shame. So other than some clues (rising prices that can be blamed on global conditions, longer queues at airports that can be blamed on staff shortages and so on) they probably believe Brexit is going just fine.

itcrowd 4y ago

To summarize: EU citizens can vote in local elections in France. After Brexit, a Brit who lives in France was denied voting right due to purported (now confirmed) lost EU citizenship. Meaning British citizens are officially not EU citizens anymore. (barring dual citizens)

hihihihi1234 4y ago

Um... how is this news? We left the EU in January 2020. I'm not sure what it would mean for Britain to leave the EU without Brits losing EU citizenship, and I've never heard anyone suggest that this might be the case. It's nearly six years since the referendum - who exactly is surprised by this "development"?

easytiger 4y ago
Apparently some people have yet to vent their impotent rage having missed the chance over the last 7 years
- mixtur2021 4y ago
  I have noticed an unhealthy obsession and inability to move on. I speak from someone who would have voted to remain. Yes it wasn't perhaps my choice, but trying to relive the result repeatedly with the same vitriol anger isn't healthy. Even more so defining your identity around it e.g. FBPE (Follow back, Pro EU) on Twitter. It also doesn't help the rejoin cause to spew such negativity and hatred at the other 50% of the population.
  - easytiger 4y ago
    I think this quite accurate. I too voted remain. The clever thing the EU did was hide it's deeds from wider observation. Subsequent to light being shed, i find it to be about the most sinister and vile organisation it is possible to imagine. Even then, ignoring my personal feelings, it is obvious these people over invested themselves with a fairly inconsequential team and are over compensating for it. Look at the news on veto removal today. Only a hardcore shill would defend this organisation.

truthwhisperer 4y ago

macinjosh 4y ago

Congratulations to my fellow brits!

mrtksn 4y ago

Brexit is a tragedy that happened as a play of few people's political career. Now British people need to go through the EU bureaucracy to have a life in EU and the EU citizens need to go through UK bureaucracy to have a life in UK. For what? Interesting fact: fear of immigration has evaporated after Brexit, despite that immigration to UK has increased. Maybe the Brexiters finally sleep well knowing that "they have control over their borders" or maybe the the media campaign of fear mongering died off.[0] I'm very sorry that UK citizens lost their EU citizenship, British are part of Europe and have a huge positive impact. I'm sorry that you will need to pay fees, fill forms, get employment rejections due to non-meritocratic reasons like paperwork and visa. Putting the government as the first line in the human resources is just beyond me. Feels like we are treated like cattle and persons need to prove worthiness to work and stay with us to the bureaucrats. It's not even the rules of immigration, which might make sense in certain situation but the act of working through the process itself is dehumanising. It's not enough to find a job that pays above certain amount or considered in demand, you need to spend money and time to expose yourself to someone who doesn't know you and has no business in your dealings and hope that they find you worthy. [0] https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1532041219601223682 https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1532041219601223682

noodlesUK 4y ago

The thing that is so frustrating is that the so called "European Question" is far from resolved in the UK. Brexit may be done in the EU, but it's going to be something of an original sin in UK politics for decades to come. The current Brexit deal would never have been voted for by the UK population had it been presented during the referendum. I see an alternate past where the UK had effectively become Switzerland or Norway, and potentially a future where it still does (once the current regime is out of the way and wounds are allowed to heal). Brexit would have just been an interesting bit of historical trivia had that come to pass. I'll never give up on the European Project personally, and it makes me deeply sad to cross the border and not have the Union Citizenship I always cherished. If it had been an option due to my ancestry, I would have gotten an alternative EU passport (as many if not most of my friends have). Brexit has made it infinitely more difficult to bring my fiancee into the country (in a bygone era we would have just Surinder Singh-ed as it's next to impossible for self-employed people to reunite with family in the UK), and has deeply degraded democracy in the UK (see proroguing parliament).

jeroenhd 4y ago

I feel for the Remainers, especially those living or working internationally. The result of this lawsuit isn't very surprising at all (turns out leaving the EU means you don't get EU benefits anymore and your country's limitations on voting aren't another country's fault) but sadly what's done is done. The UK didn't want freedom of movement/settlement with the EU and it was clear from the start that the EU wasn't going to grant rights to UK citizens the UK wasn't going to grant to the EU. The only recourse here would be for UK citizens to apply for European citizenship in a member state of their choice, but that's a long, complicated process, not dissimilar to the process of becoming a recognised UK citizen. It's also incredibly difficult if you're not highly-skilled, already living abroad and/or have access to exchange programs that offer a way in, such as access to education. For the person in question, this should be easy: France requires that you've lived there for five years, have knowledge of France and speak French, something I'd expect should be quite doable if you've lived there for fifteen years. The UK allows for double citizenship, so I think there's an easy way out for people in such situations without giving up any rights in the home country, much easier than for most people who come to France from outside the EU.

flir 4y ago
Ireland is the simplest backdoor, if you meet the criteria (I don't).
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  That makes sense. I do hope the tensions around the northern Irish border situation won't impede UK citizens even more in the years to come. The way the UK seems to be coming back on their promises paints a grim image for things to come.
  - mixtur2021 4y ago
    What are you suggesting here? That the UK wants to unwind the Common Travel Agreement? The NI situation is very loaded, it doesn't helpful such a fragile situation with a "UK is bad" narrative. Ultimately, the goal is to try and preserve peace.

frozencell 4y ago

Why does the title feel like it is about Russia? Perhaps they are the same people behind Brexit and Ruxit.

creativeembassy 4y ago

"Oh no, the consequences of my own actions!" It's stunning to watch videos of Britons confused about why they've lost certain privileges, only a short while after voting to leave the place that gave them those privileges. It's like canceling your gym membership because it's too expensive, then wanting to fight the manager because they won't let you work out there anymore. I have so much sympathy for those that knew what Brexit meant, tried to fight it, and lost the vote. I've been mentally comparing this to the 2016 US election where an (electoral) majority got Trump elected as President. But we still have large swathes of the US population that were VERY happy with all 4 years of his presidency. I'm curious how many Britons in 2016 were similarly as vocal for their support of the referendum, and are still just as happy today with the results.

urgentmsg1 4y ago
pjc50 4y ago
I think even among Brexiteers an awareness is starting to dawn that no alleged benefits have been delivered. And the fight over Northern Ireland is still ongoing.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> It's stunning to watch videos of Britons confused about why they've lost certain privileges, only a short while after voting to leave Have you consided that some of the people who are confused about this DID NOT VOTE TO LEAVE? That they are confused because nobody explained, or could explain, at the time of the Brexit, that these wouldbe the consequences? The Leave campaign was (at best) disingenous about the consequences; the Remain campaign could not predict all the consequences because that would require an actual deal to analyze.

drumhead 4y ago

You can still work or live in the EU, nothings stopping you. You can go through the process to become a citizen of an EU country just like anyone else. That's the new reality. We're not going to rejoin because no one will vote to have Schengen imposed on them, or to have a single currency or to make transfers of billions of pounds to the Commission. You can either live with it or move to the EU. But sulking about it isn't the most constructive option.

urgentmsg1 4y ago