4 ms·

I got into a flame war with a developer once who added a subscription model and wouldn't let me use the old version of their app. The entire software industry

I got into a flame war with a developer once who added a subscription model and wouldn't let me use the old version of their app. The entire software industry payment culture went to shit around when Adobe stopped letting people pirate so they'd choose their software in enterprise and shifted to a subscription-in-perpetuity model.

cosmodisk 4y ago
It went to shit but also enabled astronomical salaries for a lot of devs. There are tons of SaaS solutions out there that back in the day would have been downloaded once but now it's a never-ending stream of $5,10,15,50/month.
- elashri 4y ago
  Never ending stream of "for a price of one/two coffee per month".
bluescrn 4y ago
The thing is, subscriptions for 'big expensive software' like Adobe/Autodesk stuff makes sense in a lot of cases. Avoids a huge up-front cost, and gives everyone access to the latest version. (Having said that, I bought a copy of Photoshop CS5 outright about 10 years ago, and I still use that version. Would have paid a lot more if I was on a subscription for 10 years, and I don't use it frequently or skillfully enough to need the latest+greatest version) But we've got to a point now where the tiniest little utility wants a subscription rather than a one-off payment. And I'd blame it more on Apple than Adobe for creating the App Store model and then pushing subscriptions. Apple have also created the requirement (and cost) for developers of having to constantly update their software (just to support new OS versions or new hardware), whereas Microsoft's focus on backwards-compatibility enables a lot of software a decade or two old to still run on the latest Windows and latest hardware.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Yeah, I have an Adobe Photo subscription and that's mostly fine. I'd be upgrading Lightroom anyway and, if I did stop upgrading, it would presumably break at some point with newer OSs. But as you say it's a big nope for little utilities and/or other programs that I rarely use. Fortunately, it tends to at least be easier these days to export into a standard format for programs that have data locked into them.
- interestica 4y ago
  Adobe won't let you install certain older versions of software that you paid full price for and still have the install discs. CS3.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Microsoft’s insistence on backward compatibility comes with its own issues including the snails pace of moving forward with any new feature. If you use a Windows 10 Surface laptop today, you still will occasionally see Windows 95 dialogue boxes. Apple not only removed 32 bit compatibility in their OS’s. They also removed it from the actual hardware allowing them to improve their chipsets much faster than x86. Not mention that they can use the core OS with everything from watches, phones, computers, tablets, speakers, set top boxes and monitors (yes the latest monitors run iOS). It seems to have worked better for Apple.
cameronh90 4y ago
In principle I don't mind the subscription model. For the most part, we need to keep software up to date anyway for security reasons. Paid version updates just means that we're essentially forced to pay a large cost at random intervals when the software company feels like it, whereas subscription is usually somewhat more predictable. Lots of software companies used the transition to a subscription model as a way to disguise a large increase in costs though. What I don't like is how literally everything wants a subscription now, even things that don't provide any regular updates or online services. Overall, I quite like the JetBrains model where if you pay for a year's subscription, you get a perpetual fallback license included. Best of both worlds.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  The problem is that the subscription is used as a weapon to keep spend high. With the perpetual + 20-40% maintenance/support model, you weren’t dead in the water when the term ended. When the subscription goes, you’re toast. Subscriptions are like leasing a car. You pay an opaque premium to capitalize the software, a higher cost on the support and maintenance, and have no rights. Companies like Microsoft and VMWare also dumbed down the support, so you have to get another subscription to talk to competent people. At a large enterprise level, subscription software is valued like life insurance. If you’re a big spender, you need to look at the IRR of the company and how your multi-year commitment impacts the company’s market cap (and executive bonuses). $500k spend with a 3-year commit may be $10M of accounting dollars towards the bonus for the SVP. The strategy if you have the air cover is carrot/stick. You dangle some bullshit they really need to sell as the carrot and tell them to fuck off and walk if they won’t play. That gets attention, as the SVP who was looking at the fabric for his new boat is now scrambling to make his number.
Spooky23 4y ago
Adobe in particular was funny in that they assumed that everyone was pirating the software and factored that into their model. The place i worked for at the time was tight on Adobe licensing and had very low variance. Adobe came in and offered discounts designed around whatever they assumed was piracy. We ended up doing stunts and got the concessions we needed.

cosmodisk 4y ago

It went to shit but also enabled astronomical salaries for a lot of devs. There are tons of SaaS solutions out there that back in the day would have been downloaded once but now it's a never-ending stream of $5,10,15,50/month.

elashri 4y ago
Never ending stream of "for a price of one/two coffee per month".

bluescrn 4y ago

The thing is, subscriptions for 'big expensive software' like Adobe/Autodesk stuff makes sense in a lot of cases. Avoids a huge up-front cost, and gives everyone access to the latest version. (Having said that, I bought a copy of Photoshop CS5 outright about 10 years ago, and I still use that version. Would have paid a lot more if I was on a subscription for 10 years, and I don't use it frequently or skillfully enough to need the latest+greatest version) But we've got to a point now where the tiniest little utility wants a subscription rather than a one-off payment. And I'd blame it more on Apple than Adobe for creating the App Store model and then pushing subscriptions. Apple have also created the requirement (and cost) for developers of having to constantly update their software (just to support new OS versions or new hardware), whereas Microsoft's focus on backwards-compatibility enables a lot of software a decade or two old to still run on the latest Windows and latest hardware.

ghaff 4y ago
Yeah, I have an Adobe Photo subscription and that's mostly fine. I'd be upgrading Lightroom anyway and, if I did stop upgrading, it would presumably break at some point with newer OSs. But as you say it's a big nope for little utilities and/or other programs that I rarely use. Fortunately, it tends to at least be easier these days to export into a standard format for programs that have data locked into them.
interestica 4y ago
Adobe won't let you install certain older versions of software that you paid full price for and still have the install discs. CS3.
scarface74 4y ago
Microsoft’s insistence on backward compatibility comes with its own issues including the snails pace of moving forward with any new feature. If you use a Windows 10 Surface laptop today, you still will occasionally see Windows 95 dialogue boxes. Apple not only removed 32 bit compatibility in their OS’s. They also removed it from the actual hardware allowing them to improve their chipsets much faster than x86. Not mention that they can use the core OS with everything from watches, phones, computers, tablets, speakers, set top boxes and monitors (yes the latest monitors run iOS). It seems to have worked better for Apple.

cameronh90 4y ago

In principle I don't mind the subscription model. For the most part, we need to keep software up to date anyway for security reasons. Paid version updates just means that we're essentially forced to pay a large cost at random intervals when the software company feels like it, whereas subscription is usually somewhat more predictable. Lots of software companies used the transition to a subscription model as a way to disguise a large increase in costs though. What I don't like is how literally everything wants a subscription now, even things that don't provide any regular updates or online services. Overall, I quite like the JetBrains model where if you pay for a year's subscription, you get a perpetual fallback license included. Best of both worlds.

Spooky23 4y ago
The problem is that the subscription is used as a weapon to keep spend high. With the perpetual + 20-40% maintenance/support model, you weren’t dead in the water when the term ended. When the subscription goes, you’re toast. Subscriptions are like leasing a car. You pay an opaque premium to capitalize the software, a higher cost on the support and maintenance, and have no rights. Companies like Microsoft and VMWare also dumbed down the support, so you have to get another subscription to talk to competent people. At a large enterprise level, subscription software is valued like life insurance. If you’re a big spender, you need to look at the IRR of the company and how your multi-year commitment impacts the company’s market cap (and executive bonuses). $500k spend with a 3-year commit may be $10M of accounting dollars towards the bonus for the SVP. The strategy if you have the air cover is carrot/stick. You dangle some bullshit they really need to sell as the carrot and tell them to fuck off and walk if they won’t play. That gets attention, as the SVP who was looking at the fabric for his new boat is now scrambling to make his number.

Spooky23 4y ago

Adobe in particular was funny in that they assumed that everyone was pirating the software and factored that into their model. The place i worked for at the time was tight on Adobe licensing and had very low variance. Adobe came in and offered discounts designed around whatever they assumed was piracy. We ended up doing stunts and got the concessions we needed.