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Both are brainwashed. Basically all Americans are completely incapable of sympathizing in any way with Chinese perspective. Nobody agrees with the Chinese gove

Both are brainwashed. Basically all Americans are completely incapable of sympathizing in any way with Chinese perspective. Nobody agrees with the Chinese government but at the same time basically no one is also able to explain the reasoning from the Chinese perspective. The lack of the ability to disagree while at the same time understanding the Chinese perspective indicates a huge amount of bias. It's very easy to see this. Literally ask the person you responded why the Chinese government acted the way they did. What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation.

logicchains 4y ago
>What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation. The motivation is very simple: the Uighurs started a separatist movement, and there's little the Chinese government hates more than separatist movements. Now, many governments in the world don't like separatist movements, but you don't see the Spanish government putting Catalonians in concentration camps and forcibly sterilising them. It's not brainwashed to believe forcibly sterilising people is unacceptable, it's basic Judeo-Christian/humanist values.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  - midasuni 4y ago
    The attacks were similar in scale to the Irish attacks in the 70s through 90s. Did the U.K. sterilise Irish people?
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      No they didn't. What's your point? I never said what the Chinese did is justified. My point is that emotions that launched the sterilization campaign is equivalent to the state of the US during 9/11. This doesn't justify genocide or actual war or does it? The US, on the other hand, thought sending soldiers to another country to kill more people was justified. China isnt doing that. But that's besides the point. The point is how do you know you're brainwashed? When a person completely failed to even mention why china did what they did instead just said oh china sterilized a culture because of a "separatist movement." It shows bias, lack of understanding and over simplification of a complex situation. White Americans dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima effectively massacring an entire city with white fire. Does that make Americans evil? No it absolutely does not. Does that make the bomb justified? Also no. The point is to not place people into caricatures of right/wrong or good/evil when reality is by far much more complex. Why did china suppress the uhgyrs? If you can understand china but at the same time disagree with their actions then you have my respect. But if you can't do that... Then how are you different from a white supremacist who hates black people using over simplified reasoning and logic? Nobody here is understanding why the Chinese students did what they did.
      - logicchains 4y ago
        >My point is that emotions that launched the sterilization campaign is equivalent to the state of the US during 9/11. This doesn't justify genocide or actual war or does it? The US, on the other hand, thought sending soldiers to another country to kill more people was justified. China isnt doing that. Were American university students overseas protesting at any criticism of the Iraq war? No; if anything US university students were the most anti-war Americans, leading protests against it, as would be expected of people with a higher level of education/moral development.
        deltaonefour 4y ago
        This was before the Iraq war. 9/11 spawned a war in Afghanistan. Sentiment towards the war was extremely positive. So positive that military recruitment was up. Not one university protested military action. It was promoted. You don't understand the sentiment and the attitude of a population once a massive foreign attack happens on home soil. It started a war and changed airport policy forever. The Chinese response is equivalent to the American response in terms of scale. I would argue that the American response had much more negative repercussions and unlike the Chinese response... Failed to do anything about terrorism.
  - glogla 4y ago
    That is a lot of words to say "our genocide is justified". It is not. It can never be. If you think it can be, you don't belong in a society.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      I never said that. At. All. You didn't read shit. That is so few words to completely mis-characterize and manipulate the intended meaning of what I wrote. Big tobacco used to use catch phrases and one liners similar in vein to what your doing here in order to manipulate and obfuscate the complex statistical results that effectively showed tobacco kills people. I offer a lot of words. Read it. And offer a response that matches the nuance and complexity. Stop manipulating sentiment because you know people are too lazy to read.
  - agapon 4y ago
    Fail. Look at the North Ireland situation. There was no "reeducation" of Irish or Catholics that I heard of.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      But the US sent soldiers to another country to slaughter more people after 9/11. Which is better? Re-education or more slaughter? Also what does the UK have to do with this? I'm comparing china to the us. Cornell is in the US.
      - logicchains 4y ago
        > But the US sent soldiers to another country to slaughter more people after 9/11. Which is better? Re-education or more slaughter? Is the US doing this now? No it stopped, because so many Americans vigorously opposed it. How many Chinese people are speaking out against the genocide in Xinjiang?
        deltaonefour 4y ago
        You can't rewind your mind back to the time when 9/11 happened yesterday? I can. I was there. Americans stopped because the event became more and more distant and forgotten. Your attitude and your parents attitude and EVERYONES attitude at that time was one of mourning and burning desire for military action. The sentiment was universal and it will become universal again should another terrorist attack occur on american soil. The chinese sentiment is the same, it makes sense given WHEN the attacks occured. It is fresh. If you can't understand why the uyghur was booed and instead choose to compare them to white supremacists then you're a person who's not very knowledgeable and lacks perspective. The universities attitude towards this situation is correct, it is complex and it is not fully evident how to proceed. THe chinese booed the uhyger because in a sense from their perspective the uhyger is promoting slaughter and terrorism. From the uhygers perspective they are promoting cultural freedom and autonomy and protesting detainment. The american perspective is one of rivalry against China. China is quickly coming into power so they are a rival. It is easier to pick a one sided, stupid and bigotted viewpoint that justifies the rivalry then it is to pick the complex viewpoint where justification of the rivalry is no longer clear. I can easily say your post promotes terrorism and domestic acts of killing and terrorist attacks. It's the same as what a lot of people are doing to me. They're saying shit like "You're basically saying mass sterilization is ok" and putting words into my mouth trying to classify which "team" I'm on. But if I did the same as them and called you a terrorist promoter that would be naive and one sided and simple minded. My post simply advocates that people stop doing that. View the story for what it truly is, a highly highly complex story of opposing intentions where the morality is not so clear.
  - logicchains 4y ago
    >Fail. What motivated them was actual slaughter. The uhygers conducted a terrorist attack that killed many people. Think 9/11 but it happened in china so your biased mind is unable to comprehend how bad it is because it didn't happen in your backyard. So it's okay to jail and sterilise innocent people for the actions of a small number of people of the same ethnicity? Anyone who believes that is a truly horrible person, a monster who deserves to suffer the greatest pains in life, and I'd wish every misery upon them. I'd say the same thing about anyone who believes the American slaughter of innocent children in the middle east was justified, but fortunately most Americans now recognise that was a mistake and the US has mostly wound down its aggression in the middle east. You're advocating for the exact same thing the terrorists did: harming innocent people for actions that they weren't directly responsible for, purely because of their ethnicity.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      Did I say it's ok? No. Why don't you read the post. Before saying I'm advocating something I'm not. Basically Every American once thought it was 100 percent correct to send soldiers to the middle east. That sentiment will occur again if another terrorist attack happens on American soil. You're to young and niave to remember. Military recruiting was up during that time. The entire american attitude and sentiment changed overnight. If you fail to understand this sentiment and youre only able to understand the world from a singular perspective. Then you're basically very biased or just really young.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    > Or china in response to a terrorist massacre, wages a campaign to assimilate, brainwash and sterilize an entire culture without any intention to start an actual military war. Which results in detainment and people losing their freedoms all in the name of preventing terrorism. It's hard to attract sympathy towards your argument when you straight up admit that sterilization of an entire culture is going on, which yes indeed makes it worse than Afghanistan and moves way towards genocide.
    - deltaonefour 4y ago
      Attracting sympathy is the wrong word. Understanding is a better word. Understanding the psychology of why sterilization and genocide takes place. To you it seems horrid. But to a chinese person the perspective is completely opposite. Why? This failure to understand leads to brain dead responses. I use the war in afghanstan and 9/11 for comparison because Americans actively promoted and encouraged mass slaughter during that time by sending soldiers to another country. What causes Americans to embrace actual slaughter? What is the psychology behind it? It is the same psychology that pushes the chinese to do the "re-educate" the uhgyrs. The difference is, no actual "slaughter" is happening on the Chinese side. I don't support the chinese response. But when I see people comparing the chinese students attitude to "white supremacy" and not even have a shred of understanding of why the uyghur were booed it shows how stupid a lot of people are. Chinese people were slaughtered in a terrorist attack. People were killed. That's why the uyghur got booed. The situation isn't so black and white. The university has the right attitude. The OP to my original response has a narrow attitude, an uncompromising view that shows lack of knowledge.
      - the_only_law 4y ago
        Apologies, misread the intent.

logicchains 4y ago

>What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation. The motivation is very simple: the Uighurs started a separatist movement, and there's little the Chinese government hates more than separatist movements. Now, many governments in the world don't like separatist movements, but you don't see the Spanish government putting Catalonians in concentration camps and forcibly sterilising them. It's not brainwashed to believe forcibly sterilising people is unacceptable, it's basic Judeo-Christian/humanist values.

deltaonefour 4y ago
- midasuni 4y ago
  The attacks were similar in scale to the Irish attacks in the 70s through 90s. Did the U.K. sterilise Irish people?
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    No they didn't. What's your point? I never said what the Chinese did is justified. My point is that emotions that launched the sterilization campaign is equivalent to the state of the US during 9/11. This doesn't justify genocide or actual war or does it? The US, on the other hand, thought sending soldiers to another country to kill more people was justified. China isnt doing that. But that's besides the point. The point is how do you know you're brainwashed? When a person completely failed to even mention why china did what they did instead just said oh china sterilized a culture because of a "separatist movement." It shows bias, lack of understanding and over simplification of a complex situation. White Americans dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima effectively massacring an entire city with white fire. Does that make Americans evil? No it absolutely does not. Does that make the bomb justified? Also no. The point is to not place people into caricatures of right/wrong or good/evil when reality is by far much more complex. Why did china suppress the uhgyrs? If you can understand china but at the same time disagree with their actions then you have my respect. But if you can't do that... Then how are you different from a white supremacist who hates black people using over simplified reasoning and logic? Nobody here is understanding why the Chinese students did what they did.
    - logicchains 4y ago
      >My point is that emotions that launched the sterilization campaign is equivalent to the state of the US during 9/11. This doesn't justify genocide or actual war or does it? The US, on the other hand, thought sending soldiers to another country to kill more people was justified. China isnt doing that. Were American university students overseas protesting at any criticism of the Iraq war? No; if anything US university students were the most anti-war Americans, leading protests against it, as would be expected of people with a higher level of education/moral development.
      - deltaonefour 4y ago
        This was before the Iraq war. 9/11 spawned a war in Afghanistan. Sentiment towards the war was extremely positive. So positive that military recruitment was up. Not one university protested military action. It was promoted. You don't understand the sentiment and the attitude of a population once a massive foreign attack happens on home soil. It started a war and changed airport policy forever. The Chinese response is equivalent to the American response in terms of scale. I would argue that the American response had much more negative repercussions and unlike the Chinese response... Failed to do anything about terrorism.
- glogla 4y ago
  That is a lot of words to say "our genocide is justified". It is not. It can never be. If you think it can be, you don't belong in a society.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    I never said that. At. All. You didn't read shit. That is so few words to completely mis-characterize and manipulate the intended meaning of what I wrote. Big tobacco used to use catch phrases and one liners similar in vein to what your doing here in order to manipulate and obfuscate the complex statistical results that effectively showed tobacco kills people. I offer a lot of words. Read it. And offer a response that matches the nuance and complexity. Stop manipulating sentiment because you know people are too lazy to read.
- agapon 4y ago
  Fail. Look at the North Ireland situation. There was no "reeducation" of Irish or Catholics that I heard of.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    But the US sent soldiers to another country to slaughter more people after 9/11. Which is better? Re-education or more slaughter? Also what does the UK have to do with this? I'm comparing china to the us. Cornell is in the US.
    - logicchains 4y ago
      > But the US sent soldiers to another country to slaughter more people after 9/11. Which is better? Re-education or more slaughter? Is the US doing this now? No it stopped, because so many Americans vigorously opposed it. How many Chinese people are speaking out against the genocide in Xinjiang?
      - deltaonefour 4y ago
        You can't rewind your mind back to the time when 9/11 happened yesterday? I can. I was there. Americans stopped because the event became more and more distant and forgotten. Your attitude and your parents attitude and EVERYONES attitude at that time was one of mourning and burning desire for military action. The sentiment was universal and it will become universal again should another terrorist attack occur on american soil. The chinese sentiment is the same, it makes sense given WHEN the attacks occured. It is fresh. If you can't understand why the uyghur was booed and instead choose to compare them to white supremacists then you're a person who's not very knowledgeable and lacks perspective. The universities attitude towards this situation is correct, it is complex and it is not fully evident how to proceed. THe chinese booed the uhyger because in a sense from their perspective the uhyger is promoting slaughter and terrorism. From the uhygers perspective they are promoting cultural freedom and autonomy and protesting detainment. The american perspective is one of rivalry against China. China is quickly coming into power so they are a rival. It is easier to pick a one sided, stupid and bigotted viewpoint that justifies the rivalry then it is to pick the complex viewpoint where justification of the rivalry is no longer clear. I can easily say your post promotes terrorism and domestic acts of killing and terrorist attacks. It's the same as what a lot of people are doing to me. They're saying shit like "You're basically saying mass sterilization is ok" and putting words into my mouth trying to classify which "team" I'm on. But if I did the same as them and called you a terrorist promoter that would be naive and one sided and simple minded. My post simply advocates that people stop doing that. View the story for what it truly is, a highly highly complex story of opposing intentions where the morality is not so clear.
- logicchains 4y ago
  >Fail. What motivated them was actual slaughter. The uhygers conducted a terrorist attack that killed many people. Think 9/11 but it happened in china so your biased mind is unable to comprehend how bad it is because it didn't happen in your backyard. So it's okay to jail and sterilise innocent people for the actions of a small number of people of the same ethnicity? Anyone who believes that is a truly horrible person, a monster who deserves to suffer the greatest pains in life, and I'd wish every misery upon them. I'd say the same thing about anyone who believes the American slaughter of innocent children in the middle east was justified, but fortunately most Americans now recognise that was a mistake and the US has mostly wound down its aggression in the middle east. You're advocating for the exact same thing the terrorists did: harming innocent people for actions that they weren't directly responsible for, purely because of their ethnicity.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    Did I say it's ok? No. Why don't you read the post. Before saying I'm advocating something I'm not. Basically Every American once thought it was 100 percent correct to send soldiers to the middle east. That sentiment will occur again if another terrorist attack happens on American soil. You're to young and niave to remember. Military recruiting was up during that time. The entire american attitude and sentiment changed overnight. If you fail to understand this sentiment and youre only able to understand the world from a singular perspective. Then you're basically very biased or just really young.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > Or china in response to a terrorist massacre, wages a campaign to assimilate, brainwash and sterilize an entire culture without any intention to start an actual military war. Which results in detainment and people losing their freedoms all in the name of preventing terrorism. It's hard to attract sympathy towards your argument when you straight up admit that sterilization of an entire culture is going on, which yes indeed makes it worse than Afghanistan and moves way towards genocide.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    Attracting sympathy is the wrong word. Understanding is a better word. Understanding the psychology of why sterilization and genocide takes place. To you it seems horrid. But to a chinese person the perspective is completely opposite. Why? This failure to understand leads to brain dead responses. I use the war in afghanstan and 9/11 for comparison because Americans actively promoted and encouraged mass slaughter during that time by sending soldiers to another country. What causes Americans to embrace actual slaughter? What is the psychology behind it? It is the same psychology that pushes the chinese to do the "re-educate" the uhgyrs. The difference is, no actual "slaughter" is happening on the Chinese side. I don't support the chinese response. But when I see people comparing the chinese students attitude to "white supremacy" and not even have a shred of understanding of why the uyghur were booed it shows how stupid a lot of people are. Chinese people were slaughtered in a terrorist attack. People were killed. That's why the uyghur got booed. The situation isn't so black and white. The university has the right attitude. The OP to my original response has a narrow attitude, an uncompromising view that shows lack of knowledge.
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      Apologies, misread the intent.