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I’m very happy with not owning† it. I don’t know why I should own it. — † Using your definition of “owning”. I won’t complain about your definition but don’t

by ugh 15y ago

I’m very happy with not owning† it. I don’t know why I should own it. — † Using your definition of “owning”. I won’t complain about your definition but don’t be surprised when others do.

sp332 15y ago
Mainly, because I paid for it, but Apple still has control over what it runs. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." The real definition of ownership is who controls the device. To the extent that I can't do what I want with the phone, it isn't mine.
- frou_dh 15y ago
  > [Manufacturer] still has control over what it runs. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." Couldn't you say that for just about anything containing an integrated circuit?
  - Someone 15y ago
    Because of decennia of price drops of electronics, they get rarer, but there still are mechanical clocks and egg timers without an IC in it. These used to be screwed closed, but nowadays, the housing typically cannot be opened. So, a proponent of that claim should even it to some things without an IC.
  - sp332 15y ago
    It may be infeasible, but at least it's not illegal.
    - th0ma5 15y ago
      not entirely unfeasible... i hear they tracked down directv hackers through their use of electron microscope-like devices
- ugh 15y ago
  I have no problem with your definition of owning. I disagree with it – but that’s not the point and it would be pointless to discuss this any further. I would prefer not to. On the facts (and not definitions) I do agree with you. Apple does have control over what iOS runs, that’s certainly true. What I’m saying is that I do not care about that. This is not black and white either: I know what Apple allows and what they don’t. There are some annoying issues with that but I’m personally not affected by them. It’s a negative point for me, certainly one I considered when I bought my iPad, but on balance it wasn’t important enough for me to care about it at all. I know that Apple can unilaterally change what they allow and what not but 1) there is public pressure on them not to and 2) my iPad won’t survive forever and I can switch to something else quick enough.
  - Natsu 15y ago
    > What I’m saying is that I do not care about that. That's certainly your prerogative. I think that more people should care, but it's ultimately your choice to make, not mine. At least you're making an informed decision and I can respect that even if I disagree. My worry is that many people don't care right now because they're not informed and because Apple isn't doing anything most people would care about. And that sets things up for someday when, in the pursuit of profit, they will start abusing it in ways that most people care about. By then, it will be too late. Maybe I'm wrong about that. It turned out that I was right about Sony, though. I would have liked to buy some of their products, even knowing their faults, but I refused. And I by refusing to buy from them from the start, I avoided all sorts of trouble later on. True, Apple could be a different case. I just don't care enough about them to find that out the hard way.
- planb 15y ago
  That's the same for your alarm clock, your video game console, your TV, and maybe even your fridge. All these things run only the software that the vendor allows you to run. Why don't people complain that they can't install Linux on their camera? However - I think it's different for cars, which are often brought up as a comparison but can in fact be customized in many ways.

by ugh 15y ago

sp332 15y ago

Mainly, because I paid for it, but Apple still has control over what it runs. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." The real definition of ownership is who controls the device. To the extent that I can't do what I want with the phone, it isn't mine.

frou_dh 15y ago
> [Manufacturer] still has control over what it runs. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." Couldn't you say that for just about anything containing an integrated circuit?
- Someone 15y ago
  Because of decennia of price drops of electronics, they get rarer, but there still are mechanical clocks and egg timers without an IC in it. These used to be screwed closed, but nowadays, the housing typically cannot be opened. So, a proponent of that claim should even it to some things without an IC.
- sp332 15y ago
  It may be infeasible, but at least it's not illegal.
  - th0ma5 15y ago
    not entirely unfeasible... i hear they tracked down directv hackers through their use of electron microscope-like devices
ugh 15y ago
I have no problem with your definition of owning. I disagree with it – but that’s not the point and it would be pointless to discuss this any further. I would prefer not to. On the facts (and not definitions) I do agree with you. Apple does have control over what iOS runs, that’s certainly true. What I’m saying is that I do not care about that. This is not black and white either: I know what Apple allows and what they don’t. There are some annoying issues with that but I’m personally not affected by them. It’s a negative point for me, certainly one I considered when I bought my iPad, but on balance it wasn’t important enough for me to care about it at all. I know that Apple can unilaterally change what they allow and what not but 1) there is public pressure on them not to and 2) my iPad won’t survive forever and I can switch to something else quick enough.
- Natsu 15y ago
  > What I’m saying is that I do not care about that. That's certainly your prerogative. I think that more people should care, but it's ultimately your choice to make, not mine. At least you're making an informed decision and I can respect that even if I disagree. My worry is that many people don't care right now because they're not informed and because Apple isn't doing anything most people would care about. And that sets things up for someday when, in the pursuit of profit, they will start abusing it in ways that most people care about. By then, it will be too late. Maybe I'm wrong about that. It turned out that I was right about Sony, though. I would have liked to buy some of their products, even knowing their faults, but I refused. And I by refusing to buy from them from the start, I avoided all sorts of trouble later on. True, Apple could be a different case. I just don't care enough about them to find that out the hard way.
planb 15y ago
That's the same for your alarm clock, your video game console, your TV, and maybe even your fridge. All these things run only the software that the vendor allows you to run. Why don't people complain that they can't install Linux on their camera? However - I think it's different for cars, which are often brought up as a comparison but can in fact be customized in many ways.