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Ask HN: Tesla owners – what's your feedback

16 points by TheAlchemist 4y ago

This is only for Tesla owners, so please don't post if you're not one. Are Tesla really good and worth buying today ? The question seems so polarizing and cult-driven on both sides, that it's really hard to have an opinion about what the actual car owners have to say.

version_five 4y ago
Maybe you should find a car forum or subreddit. This is not a HN question.
- TheAlchemist 4y ago
  I know. But actually, Tesla is selling itself as a technology company, and wanted some less subjective (if that's possible) feedback, from tech savvy people.
hancholo 4y ago
Nope. Fun to drive sure... but overrated and quality has gone down. Those panel gaps, yikes. Source: Former engineer for Tesla.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  My 2021 Model Y LR has no panel gaps, inspected the entire vehicle before delivery using the Reddit-provided checklist. Quality is on par with my 2018 Model S and 2019 Model X (8/10 in aggregate, mostly minor issues), would begrudgingly complete my Cybertruck reservation into an order despite Musk’s highly distasteful antics. My Model S is at almost 100k miles having been driven US cross country over the last four years (mostly on EAP flavored Autopilot), and it has been very reliable (X and Y are around town cars). I know I can pull into a Supercharger stall anywhere in the US and it’ll work. No adapters, no down stations, no billing issues, it just works. When you’re paying to be on the bleeding edge, you’re willing to compromise. Such is life. Thank you for your contributions to the products! (former Tesla investor)
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Reliable to 100k miles is not a feat. Asian car manufacturers have been making ICE cars that will reliably go over 200k and even 300k most times with just regular maintenance. I have driven two cars over 250k miles personally and sold them for a song and they are both going strong! (Hyundai and Toyota). People brag about 70k and 100k on their Teslas like it is something impressive. It isn't at all.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      There are folks with 200k-400k miles on their Model S and X, I admit my single 100k mile datapoint is n=1. OP asked for owner ground truth. Here’s an S that has gone 900k miles: https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-kilometers/ https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-k... https://twitter.com/gem8mingen/status/1479108423685840905 https://twitter.com/gem8mingen/status/1479108423685840905 There’s no more than 20 moving parts in the powertrain, of course it’s going to be reliable. Even the brake pads last the life of the vehicle now due to aggressive regeneration.
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        >There’s no more than 20 moving parts in the power-train, of course it’s going to be reliable. Mazda called, they want their 1980s marketing BS back. From a pure technical perspective, yes, less moving parts are more reliable. From the perceptive of some upper middle class consumer who has to pay some godawful price for any given part to be swapped out a simple minor oversight in the "systems that are common to all cars" portion of the system can easily make the simpler system "unreliable" in practice. Furthermore, mileage alone is not going to unlock the "inadequate design of plastic components causing failure as they get brittle" failure mode. That comes with age. That said, you may be right. Toyota basically lied to these same demographics for 15 yr about "don't worry guys, we fixed the frames on the new ones" with no apparent reputational damage.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        > As far as we know, the original battery pack had an issue after 290,000 km (180,000 miles) and was replaced under warranty. However, Tesla was initially figuring out the issue and installed a loaner battery, which was used for half a year or 150,000 km (93,000 miles). Then, Tesla installed a new, final battery. We don't have any info about any further replacements, so it might be the first 1 million km battery? Yeah. Still not really impressive. That is like saying, "My Toyota has gone 1m miles. Oh, I replaced the drivetrain twice. So what?" Toyotas go 1m and you don't even notice: https://www.toyotaofnorthcharlotte.com/blog/the-million-mile-tundra/#:~:text=The%20latest%20most%20extraordinary%20news,his%20truck%20put%20in%20work https://www.toyotaofnorthcharlotte.com/blog/the-million-mile...!
crate_barre 4y ago
yuppie_scum 4y ago
I love not worrying about gas prices or oil changes. The car is fast, handles great and quite practical, and the connected features (app control, Spotify etc) are very nice. Autopilot (not to be confused with Full Self Driving) is standard and it is great for highway drives and traffic jams. DOnt need to subsidize Putin or terrorist regimes to fuel it. And environmental brownie points. I have no regrets buying one. That said, the legacy automakers are catching up very fast. There are some compelling alternatives to most of the Tesla model line and more coming within the next couple model years. I did not buy it for status or cult membership, in fact I loath the hardcore Tesla and Elon Stans. I think the legacy makers will eat Tesla’s lunch within 10 years but there are enough out on the road that I don’t worry about parts or support.
explaingarlic 4y ago
They're huge milk floats. As someone who has only ever owned two cars (1L Citroen and a 3L m240i), and who has driven a Model 3, I can say for sure that internal combustion cars have a lot more character and are more fun to drive, with relatively comparable performance if considering their price when new. As far as "worth buying" - what do you think? A forty five thousand dollar product that does the exact same thing as others that cost three thousand, albeit with running costs significantly lower. Those running costs don't add up to making Model 3s better than cheap used ICE cars that get 30+mpg. I don't understand the mentality of people who want a "good value", "worth buying" vehicle yet wish to buy new - I'm not fully up-to-speed about the corporate/tax benefits of doing so, but I know that a personal choice to buy a new vehicle while paying VAT is one of the worst decisions you'll make in your life. That being said, my impression of the Model 3 is as follows: - The interior is not as premium as I'd expect for the price tag, and the quality control issues are unacceptable. - It can be a performant little milk float, and seems genuinely well engineered from a drivetrain/battery point of view (E.G. Nissan Leafs of the same age seem to have significantly worse battery lifetimes, presumably because of their under-engineered battery health management). - Driving-wise, it's zippy, and the suspension feels much nicer on British roads (think: Swiss cheese) than my m240i (though people online claim that BMW purposefully made my generation's m240i's suspension horrible). - Infotainment has a bunch of useless crap that no one should care about. Significantly more tacky than what my beamer has, and nowhere near the quality nor well integrated nature of the Audi infotainment/digital features. That being said, if you want to talk overpriced vehicles, Audi seems to be the king in that respect.
theluketaylor 4y ago
I bought my Model 3 SR+ about 18 months ago before all the price increases. I love my car, but I would not buy it again at the price they are asking now. I also don't love the hype machine side of Tesla around future products and features. "Full Self Driving" is so close to fraud I'm shocked the FTC hasn't investigated or sanctioned them already. Semi, Roadster 2.0, and Cybertruck are all vapourware and have been for years. The pros: Very sharp steering. Driver profiles that set the seats, steering wheel, and mirrors are excellent. Every other car maker that limits you to 2 or 3 presets is blow away by just how easy Tesla makes it in the UI to have as many profiles as you need. Supercharger network is great, especially since you simply drive up and plug in. Backup camera is excellent. Preheating/cooling from the app is delightful. Cons: Model 3 should have been a liftback. Ride can be a bit harsh on rougher tarmac. Not being able to charge at CCS stations is a disappointment (fixed in the EU thanks to directives). Paint colours are way too expensive. Autopilot and FSD drive like drunk teenagers; do not trust at all. Phantom braking while in adaptive cruise is annoying. Road and wind noise are quite noticeable compared to other cars of similar price. Headrests don't adjust and the rear ones can't be removed for better visibility. Rearview mirror is tiny for no reason. Touch screen only interface is annoying sometimes. I'd like some hard buttons for some key systems like wipers and HVAC. If I was buying today I'd get a Hyundai Ionic 5.
- Chipmaster32 4y ago
  Agreed with most of this. Just wanted to point out that you can now get CCS access in the US by purchasing an adapter from Tesla (admittedly via a South Korea shipping proxy) for around $300.
  - theluketaylor 4y ago
    I believe it only works with certain models that have some upgraded hardware and software. I think it's 2020+ for model 3, but I could easily be wrong.
rvz 4y ago
> This is only for Tesla owners, so please don't post if you're not one. Are Tesla really good and worth buying today ? Almost asking a barber if you need a hair cut. The Teslas are fine. The FSD (Fools Self Driving) software is a scam.
Chipmaster32 4y ago
We bought a M3LR about 9 months back. The main reason was it was our only car and we had range anxiety, so access to the supercharger network and 330 miles of range made us comfortable enough to make the EV plunge. Now that we're comfortable driving EVs, our next car wouldn't be a Tesla. The car itself is nice and i don't really care at all about visual stuff that people seem to get up in arms about (panel gaps, etc). It's more that I'm not a fan of walled garden products and Tesla seems happy to call themselves the apple of cars. Proprietary charging cables, service centers, insurance... I do hate dealerships though, so I'm hoping other manufacturers follow their lead on that. The important parts of the car work well, the over the air updates to noticably improve it are cool, and i do think their approach to self driving is the most sensible to get their first. Still i think level 4 or 5 autonomous driving will be a lot farther out than they'd like customers to believe and their marketing for it as Full Self Driving is borderline fraud in its current state.
- popularonion 4y ago
  I’m kind of similar. I bought the car for the range and the Supercharger network, I don’t know or care about “panel gaps”, and I get nothing but compliments about the car’s looks. What’s making me want to switch is the lack of CarPlay support. Apple Maps is so much better than Tesla’s navigation UI, it makes me look forward to renting a car when I travel. Navigate on Autopilot is OK but suffering from a lack of improvements the last two years. Now that news came out recently about new camera/radar HW coming out, I’m just assuming our HW3 (current gen) cars will be left behind with no way to upgrade. Edit: I also want to add a lack of investment in new Supercharger stations the past two years. I’m sure there have been a lot popping up in CA/TX, but very few in my region. It’s like they’re just planning to cede the local market to Ford, etc.
nunez 4y ago
2020 Model 3 LR. Absolutely, yes. Best automotive software you will ever use, very fun to drive, which I do rarely because Autopilot/FSD does most of the driving these days, amazing sound system and really comfortable seats. I've driven all over the US with this car. I hated road tripping before getting it. I'm waiting for my comp to go up slightly so I can trade in my wife's car for a 2022 or 2023 Model S Long Range and give her the Model 3. (I never lease; always finance.) Unless Ford seriously catches up in the software and autonomy space, I'm not buying anything other than a Tesla.

16 points by TheAlchemist 4y ago

version_five 4y ago

Maybe you should find a car forum or subreddit. This is not a HN question.

TheAlchemist 4y ago
I know. But actually, Tesla is selling itself as a technology company, and wanted some less subjective (if that's possible) feedback, from tech savvy people.

hancholo 4y ago

Nope. Fun to drive sure... but overrated and quality has gone down. Those panel gaps, yikes. Source: Former engineer for Tesla.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
My 2021 Model Y LR has no panel gaps, inspected the entire vehicle before delivery using the Reddit-provided checklist. Quality is on par with my 2018 Model S and 2019 Model X (8/10 in aggregate, mostly minor issues), would begrudgingly complete my Cybertruck reservation into an order despite Musk’s highly distasteful antics. My Model S is at almost 100k miles having been driven US cross country over the last four years (mostly on EAP flavored Autopilot), and it has been very reliable (X and Y are around town cars). I know I can pull into a Supercharger stall anywhere in the US and it’ll work. No adapters, no down stations, no billing issues, it just works. When you’re paying to be on the bleeding edge, you’re willing to compromise. Such is life. Thank you for your contributions to the products! (former Tesla investor)
- roflyear 4y ago
  Reliable to 100k miles is not a feat. Asian car manufacturers have been making ICE cars that will reliably go over 200k and even 300k most times with just regular maintenance. I have driven two cars over 250k miles personally and sold them for a song and they are both going strong! (Hyundai and Toyota). People brag about 70k and 100k on their Teslas like it is something impressive. It isn't at all.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    There are folks with 200k-400k miles on their Model S and X, I admit my single 100k mile datapoint is n=1. OP asked for owner ground truth. Here’s an S that has gone 900k miles: https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-kilometers/ https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-k... https://twitter.com/gem8mingen/status/1479108423685840905 https://twitter.com/gem8mingen/status/1479108423685840905 There’s no more than 20 moving parts in the powertrain, of course it’s going to be reliable. Even the brake pads last the life of the vehicle now due to aggressive regeneration.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      >There’s no more than 20 moving parts in the power-train, of course it’s going to be reliable. Mazda called, they want their 1980s marketing BS back. From a pure technical perspective, yes, less moving parts are more reliable. From the perceptive of some upper middle class consumer who has to pay some godawful price for any given part to be swapped out a simple minor oversight in the "systems that are common to all cars" portion of the system can easily make the simpler system "unreliable" in practice. Furthermore, mileage alone is not going to unlock the "inadequate design of plastic components causing failure as they get brittle" failure mode. That comes with age. That said, you may be right. Toyota basically lied to these same demographics for 15 yr about "don't worry guys, we fixed the frames on the new ones" with no apparent reputational damage.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      > As far as we know, the original battery pack had an issue after 290,000 km (180,000 miles) and was replaced under warranty. However, Tesla was initially figuring out the issue and installed a loaner battery, which was used for half a year or 150,000 km (93,000 miles). Then, Tesla installed a new, final battery. We don't have any info about any further replacements, so it might be the first 1 million km battery? Yeah. Still not really impressive. That is like saying, "My Toyota has gone 1m miles. Oh, I replaced the drivetrain twice. So what?" Toyotas go 1m and you don't even notice: https://www.toyotaofnorthcharlotte.com/blog/the-million-mile-tundra/#:~:text=The%20latest%20most%20extraordinary%20news,his%20truck%20put%20in%20work https://www.toyotaofnorthcharlotte.com/blog/the-million-mile...!

crate_barre 4y ago

yuppie_scum 4y ago

I love not worrying about gas prices or oil changes. The car is fast, handles great and quite practical, and the connected features (app control, Spotify etc) are very nice. Autopilot (not to be confused with Full Self Driving) is standard and it is great for highway drives and traffic jams. DOnt need to subsidize Putin or terrorist regimes to fuel it. And environmental brownie points. I have no regrets buying one. That said, the legacy automakers are catching up very fast. There are some compelling alternatives to most of the Tesla model line and more coming within the next couple model years. I did not buy it for status or cult membership, in fact I loath the hardcore Tesla and Elon Stans. I think the legacy makers will eat Tesla’s lunch within 10 years but there are enough out on the road that I don’t worry about parts or support.

explaingarlic 4y ago

They're huge milk floats. As someone who has only ever owned two cars (1L Citroen and a 3L m240i), and who has driven a Model 3, I can say for sure that internal combustion cars have a lot more character and are more fun to drive, with relatively comparable performance if considering their price when new. As far as "worth buying" - what do you think? A forty five thousand dollar product that does the exact same thing as others that cost three thousand, albeit with running costs significantly lower. Those running costs don't add up to making Model 3s better than cheap used ICE cars that get 30+mpg. I don't understand the mentality of people who want a "good value", "worth buying" vehicle yet wish to buy new - I'm not fully up-to-speed about the corporate/tax benefits of doing so, but I know that a personal choice to buy a new vehicle while paying VAT is one of the worst decisions you'll make in your life. That being said, my impression of the Model 3 is as follows: - The interior is not as premium as I'd expect for the price tag, and the quality control issues are unacceptable. - It can be a performant little milk float, and seems genuinely well engineered from a drivetrain/battery point of view (E.G. Nissan Leafs of the same age seem to have significantly worse battery lifetimes, presumably because of their under-engineered battery health management). - Driving-wise, it's zippy, and the suspension feels much nicer on British roads (think: Swiss cheese) than my m240i (though people online claim that BMW purposefully made my generation's m240i's suspension horrible). - Infotainment has a bunch of useless crap that no one should care about. Significantly more tacky than what my beamer has, and nowhere near the quality nor well integrated nature of the Audi infotainment/digital features. That being said, if you want to talk overpriced vehicles, Audi seems to be the king in that respect.

theluketaylor 4y ago

I bought my Model 3 SR+ about 18 months ago before all the price increases. I love my car, but I would not buy it again at the price they are asking now. I also don't love the hype machine side of Tesla around future products and features. "Full Self Driving" is so close to fraud I'm shocked the FTC hasn't investigated or sanctioned them already. Semi, Roadster 2.0, and Cybertruck are all vapourware and have been for years. The pros: Very sharp steering. Driver profiles that set the seats, steering wheel, and mirrors are excellent. Every other car maker that limits you to 2 or 3 presets is blow away by just how easy Tesla makes it in the UI to have as many profiles as you need. Supercharger network is great, especially since you simply drive up and plug in. Backup camera is excellent. Preheating/cooling from the app is delightful. Cons: Model 3 should have been a liftback. Ride can be a bit harsh on rougher tarmac. Not being able to charge at CCS stations is a disappointment (fixed in the EU thanks to directives). Paint colours are way too expensive. Autopilot and FSD drive like drunk teenagers; do not trust at all. Phantom braking while in adaptive cruise is annoying. Road and wind noise are quite noticeable compared to other cars of similar price. Headrests don't adjust and the rear ones can't be removed for better visibility. Rearview mirror is tiny for no reason. Touch screen only interface is annoying sometimes. I'd like some hard buttons for some key systems like wipers and HVAC. If I was buying today I'd get a Hyundai Ionic 5.

Chipmaster32 4y ago
Agreed with most of this. Just wanted to point out that you can now get CCS access in the US by purchasing an adapter from Tesla (admittedly via a South Korea shipping proxy) for around $300.
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  I believe it only works with certain models that have some upgraded hardware and software. I think it's 2020+ for model 3, but I could easily be wrong.

rvz 4y ago

> This is only for Tesla owners, so please don't post if you're not one. Are Tesla really good and worth buying today ? Almost asking a barber if you need a hair cut. The Teslas are fine. The FSD (Fools Self Driving) software is a scam.

Chipmaster32 4y ago

We bought a M3LR about 9 months back. The main reason was it was our only car and we had range anxiety, so access to the supercharger network and 330 miles of range made us comfortable enough to make the EV plunge. Now that we're comfortable driving EVs, our next car wouldn't be a Tesla. The car itself is nice and i don't really care at all about visual stuff that people seem to get up in arms about (panel gaps, etc). It's more that I'm not a fan of walled garden products and Tesla seems happy to call themselves the apple of cars. Proprietary charging cables, service centers, insurance... I do hate dealerships though, so I'm hoping other manufacturers follow their lead on that. The important parts of the car work well, the over the air updates to noticably improve it are cool, and i do think their approach to self driving is the most sensible to get their first. Still i think level 4 or 5 autonomous driving will be a lot farther out than they'd like customers to believe and their marketing for it as Full Self Driving is borderline fraud in its current state.

popularonion 4y ago
I’m kind of similar. I bought the car for the range and the Supercharger network, I don’t know or care about “panel gaps”, and I get nothing but compliments about the car’s looks. What’s making me want to switch is the lack of CarPlay support. Apple Maps is so much better than Tesla’s navigation UI, it makes me look forward to renting a car when I travel. Navigate on Autopilot is OK but suffering from a lack of improvements the last two years. Now that news came out recently about new camera/radar HW coming out, I’m just assuming our HW3 (current gen) cars will be left behind with no way to upgrade. Edit: I also want to add a lack of investment in new Supercharger stations the past two years. I’m sure there have been a lot popping up in CA/TX, but very few in my region. It’s like they’re just planning to cede the local market to Ford, etc.

nunez 4y ago

2020 Model 3 LR. Absolutely, yes. Best automotive software you will ever use, very fun to drive, which I do rarely because Autopilot/FSD does most of the driving these days, amazing sound system and really comfortable seats. I've driven all over the US with this car. I hated road tripping before getting it. I'm waiting for my comp to go up slightly so I can trade in my wife's car for a 2022 or 2023 Model S Long Range and give her the Model 3. (I never lease; always finance.) Unless Ford seriously catches up in the software and autonomy space, I'm not buying anything other than a Tesla.