4 ms·

> I think it's important that we think abour abolishing orisons and looking at the brutality ans arbitrariness of the system. I'm all for doing something, but

> I think it's important that we think abour abolishing orisons and looking at the brutality ans arbitrariness of the system. I'm all for doing something, but what do you use to replace the prison system? Just don't arrest people?

stefantalpalaru 4y ago
mecsred 4y ago
I heard a few places in the USA basically tried that during the peak of COVID-19. Wonder how that worked out for them.
krapp 4y ago
>I'm all for doing something, but what do you use to replace the prison system? Just don't arrest people? In most cases, yes. Many crimes, like drug possession, speeding, jaywalking, etc. can be eliminated altogether, or made civil rather than criminal offenses. Much of the money and energy put into law enforcement, arrest and incarceration could be put to better use improving social services, access to mental health services, housing, education, healthcare, etc, acting as a better deterrent to crime than prisons do. Even in the rare cases where incarceration might be necessary, the process should focus on education and rehabilitation, and respect for human rights and dignity, rather than simple punishment. Yes, that means treating even the most vile among us like people rather than subhuman animals. It means spending taxpayer dollars making sure the scum of the earth have access to food, shelter and medical care, even education, rather than locking them in a cell for 23 hours a day to satisfy society's primate need for catharsis. And that's not even touching the can of worms that is the deeply entrenched systemic racism and white supremacy within the American judicial system and among the police. Many people think that system can't simply be reformed at this point, it has to be torn down entirely and rebuilt from the ground up, and maybe replaced with a system where police are actually respected members of the community with a responsibility to protect citizens, and that probably aren't even armed most of the time. I mean, hell, as many Americans as there are armed to the teeth, we can let the "well armed militia" take up a lot of the slack, and probably even reduce gun crime with a comprehensive licensing and training program (Second Amendment issues notwithstanding) and, I don't know, actual public policing and militia groups that aren't all Nazi cosplayers. I'll bet the parents of those kids who got shot in Uvalde, Texas would have been willing to go in and stop the shooter if they could have. And I'm saying that as someone who's strongly pro gun-control. We can do better than the outdated Wild West slavecatcher system we have now.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Part of the problem is we’ve gotten rid of all possible punishments save fines and prison time. You can’t sentence someone to mental healthcare or to true rehab, etc. sometimes you can make parole dependent on it, but it’s not very workable. The untold story is that the victims of crimes are often people nobody cares about so it’s not a “big deal”.
- kelnos 4y ago
  > Many crimes, like drug possession, speeding, jaywalking, etc. can be eliminated altogether, or made civil rather than criminal offenses. With you on drug possession, but in most jurisdictions, speeding and jaywalking already are not criminal offenses. I think the matter at hand is a perfect example, though: copyright infringement as a criminal offense just doesn't make sense in a civil society (something I wish we lived in!). It's just big business getting the government to enforce their profit margins by threat of prison. No one should ever go to prison for copyright infringement, ever. It also occurs to me that -- as far as I know -- there are no criminal penalties for patent or trademark infringement. Why the discrepancy? Well, I think it's obvious: big businesses have lobbied Congress to make it riskier to infringe copyrights, because they believe copyright infringement to be a huge risk to their bottom line. While double checking this point, I found this article[0]; clearly there are nutjobs out there who want to make patent infringement carry jail time! Ridiculous. [0] https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/03/04/may-time-provide-criminal-remedies-patent-infringement/id=106912/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/03/04/may-time-provide-crimi...
- smcl 4y ago
  > we can let the "well armed militia" take up a lot of the slack The 2nd amendment talks about a "well regulated militia" not a well armed one
  - no-s 4y ago
    > The 2nd amendment talks about a "well regulated militia" not a well armed one FYI “well regulated militia” in that 18th century sense meant “armed and dangerous as a fighting force at whatever scope of operation that is needful” hence the admonition not to infringe on the supporting “right to keep and bear arms”…

stefantalpalaru 4y ago

mecsred 4y ago

I heard a few places in the USA basically tried that during the peak of COVID-19. Wonder how that worked out for them.

krapp 4y ago

>I'm all for doing something, but what do you use to replace the prison system? Just don't arrest people? In most cases, yes. Many crimes, like drug possession, speeding, jaywalking, etc. can be eliminated altogether, or made civil rather than criminal offenses. Much of the money and energy put into law enforcement, arrest and incarceration could be put to better use improving social services, access to mental health services, housing, education, healthcare, etc, acting as a better deterrent to crime than prisons do. Even in the rare cases where incarceration might be necessary, the process should focus on education and rehabilitation, and respect for human rights and dignity, rather than simple punishment. Yes, that means treating even the most vile among us like people rather than subhuman animals. It means spending taxpayer dollars making sure the scum of the earth have access to food, shelter and medical care, even education, rather than locking them in a cell for 23 hours a day to satisfy society's primate need for catharsis. And that's not even touching the can of worms that is the deeply entrenched systemic racism and white supremacy within the American judicial system and among the police. Many people think that system can't simply be reformed at this point, it has to be torn down entirely and rebuilt from the ground up, and maybe replaced with a system where police are actually respected members of the community with a responsibility to protect citizens, and that probably aren't even armed most of the time. I mean, hell, as many Americans as there are armed to the teeth, we can let the "well armed militia" take up a lot of the slack, and probably even reduce gun crime with a comprehensive licensing and training program (Second Amendment issues notwithstanding) and, I don't know, actual public policing and militia groups that aren't all Nazi cosplayers. I'll bet the parents of those kids who got shot in Uvalde, Texas would have been willing to go in and stop the shooter if they could have. And I'm saying that as someone who's strongly pro gun-control. We can do better than the outdated Wild West slavecatcher system we have now.

bombcar 4y ago
Part of the problem is we’ve gotten rid of all possible punishments save fines and prison time. You can’t sentence someone to mental healthcare or to true rehab, etc. sometimes you can make parole dependent on it, but it’s not very workable. The untold story is that the victims of crimes are often people nobody cares about so it’s not a “big deal”.
kelnos 4y ago
> Many crimes, like drug possession, speeding, jaywalking, etc. can be eliminated altogether, or made civil rather than criminal offenses. With you on drug possession, but in most jurisdictions, speeding and jaywalking already are not criminal offenses. I think the matter at hand is a perfect example, though: copyright infringement as a criminal offense just doesn't make sense in a civil society (something I wish we lived in!). It's just big business getting the government to enforce their profit margins by threat of prison. No one should ever go to prison for copyright infringement, ever. It also occurs to me that -- as far as I know -- there are no criminal penalties for patent or trademark infringement. Why the discrepancy? Well, I think it's obvious: big businesses have lobbied Congress to make it riskier to infringe copyrights, because they believe copyright infringement to be a huge risk to their bottom line. While double checking this point, I found this article[0]; clearly there are nutjobs out there who want to make patent infringement carry jail time! Ridiculous. [0] https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/03/04/may-time-provide-criminal-remedies-patent-infringement/id=106912/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/03/04/may-time-provide-crimi...
smcl 4y ago
> we can let the "well armed militia" take up a lot of the slack The 2nd amendment talks about a "well regulated militia" not a well armed one
- no-s 4y ago
  > The 2nd amendment talks about a "well regulated militia" not a well armed one FYI “well regulated militia” in that 18th century sense meant “armed and dangerous as a fighting force at whatever scope of operation that is needful” hence the admonition not to infringe on the supporting “right to keep and bear arms”…