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One of the most pro-Republican states is Wyoming, state population around 581,000 in 2020. If we consider Trump voters as a proxy for people who might want to s

One of the most pro-Republican states is Wyoming, state population around 581,000 in 2020. If we consider Trump voters as a proxy for people who might want to secede, we have about 235,000 people who voted for Trump out of about 427,000 eligible. That's about 55% of eligible voters and 40% of the whole population. Even if secession were legal, it would be unjust to let a state secede with only 40% support. A more viable attempt at secession might look like: perhaps a new Hawaiian independence party forms with massive (>80%) and sustained (>20 years) on-the-ground support, with all federal representatives coming from this party. Eventually this party might convince the federal and enough state governments to support a constitutional amendment recognizing a specific independence referendum. That's very theoretical but I hope illustrates what actual secession might look like.

ghiculescu 4y ago
If you don't live in Wyoming, why can you impose your idea of justice on them? It seems like a matter for Wyoming people to sort out.
- sky-kedge0749 4y ago
  Because all of them are Americans and deserve protection under our common laws. All states are in the union with the understanding that the union will protect everyone, including unionists in a state with significant support for secession. It's not my idea of justice, it's our idea of justice, all of ours. Turning our back on them by letting a state leave illegally would be betraying that trust. Also consider that before the U.S. civil war the southern states voted against Lincoln, the northern candidate, in fact he was not even on the ballot in many of them. If the enslaved people in those states had been able to vote things would have gone differently. So we have a unique and terrible history of states seceding based on a minority's wishes.
native_samples 4y ago
Not that theoretical. Scottish independence is a template for how you'd approach it without military conflict. The issue there being that despite voting for an independence party for decades they don't actually seem to want it and their referendum to secede failed, partly because the independence movement turned into a generic left wing political party that wasn't very interested in working out the complicated details.

ghiculescu 4y ago

If you don't live in Wyoming, why can you impose your idea of justice on them? It seems like a matter for Wyoming people to sort out.

sky-kedge0749 4y ago
Because all of them are Americans and deserve protection under our common laws. All states are in the union with the understanding that the union will protect everyone, including unionists in a state with significant support for secession. It's not my idea of justice, it's our idea of justice, all of ours. Turning our back on them by letting a state leave illegally would be betraying that trust. Also consider that before the U.S. civil war the southern states voted against Lincoln, the northern candidate, in fact he was not even on the ballot in many of them. If the enslaved people in those states had been able to vote things would have gone differently. So we have a unique and terrible history of states seceding based on a minority's wishes.

native_samples 4y ago

Not that theoretical. Scottish independence is a template for how you'd approach it without military conflict. The issue there being that despite voting for an independence party for decades they don't actually seem to want it and their referendum to secede failed, partly because the independence movement turned into a generic left wing political party that wasn't very interested in working out the complicated details.