6 ms·

Google up to be some sort of shining example of doing good and doing the right thing(tm) given all their history so far. Given all Apple and Google is doing, th

by jhuni 15y ago

Google up to be some sort of shining example of doing good and doing the right thing(tm) given all their history so far. Given all Apple and Google is doing, they are just the same. They are companies trying to make money. To be honest, there are things I dislike about all corporations, but at least Google's main goal is deliver intelligent services like search and machine translation rather then dominate my computer with DRM, which fits into their "do no evil" motto. You can't expect them to be completely perfect in a capitalist society, though. You have just decided to hate apple and hey more power to you but your "points" or "arguments" are just empty shells and poo-flinging at apple and you are actually contradicting yourself if you want control and open source and then you use google's services but shit on apple. No I haven't because I made it clear that first and foremost I want _personal control_ over my own computer. I don't see why you don't understand this principle. You should also understand that gaining complete access to all external information and services, including those provided by Google, is a much more long-term goal, and it would require some sort of post-capitalist economic system. But this is the past. Music has been DRM free for quite some time on iTunes now. Getting the tyrants at Apple to get rid of their oppressive restrictions in iTunes was a good first victory, but they still profit heavily from proprietary software and DRM. Defective by design commented on this here: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/itunes-drm-free http://www.defectivebydesign.org/itunes-drm-free Or why is OS X's BSD core not good enough for you then just the same? It is pretty convenient for them to use (steal?) source code from BSD, because that lets them make modifications without releasing them! Although there use of some open source products and their elimination of DRM from iTunes are good things, it won't be "good enough" until they adopt a business model that is not based upon dominating other people's computers.

myspy 15y ago
You are a pretty big fool, believing Apple is to blame for pricing in the iTunes Store. The content providers set the prices, not Apple. They just distribute and take a small share. And how is Apple dominating my computer? I have no clue what you mean.
- jhuni 15y ago
  You are a pretty big fool, believing Apple is to blame for pricing in the iTunes Store. The content providers set the prices, not Apple. I didn't say Apple personally set the prices, I just stated that Apple's business model is dependent upon blockbuster hits. Google's business model, on the other hand, is dependent upon advertisements. And how is Apple dominating my computer? I have no clue what you mean. I am not sure of your particular case, however, Apple is a prominent user of DRM which they use to restrict and control millions of people's computers: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple
  - myspy 15y ago
    Now I see what you mean, but I wouldn't say your source is reliable. I can see where your opinion comes from, but you should consider more sources. Most of those points are either incorrect or don't take into account what the goal of all companies on this planet is. Making money. Ideology is good for yourself but won't feed you or buy you a house. A middle ground is the way to go. And Apples middle ground is quality products with proprietary software. You can't control the quality of your products, when opening it up to the competition (Palm Pre). As some said before Google does this too. You won't get their search engine code, nor will Apple give you iOS.
    - jhuni 15y ago
      Apple won't give me iOS, yet Google will give me more then enough of Android. Google FTW. I rest my case.
      - kahawe 15y ago
        > Google will give me Yet google will not give you any code to their actual core services. > Google FTW. I rest my case. Yea, this is what this whole "discussion" has been about... go figure, you were right from the beginning until now!!! Congratulations, you haven't learned a thing. You are either mentally 14 years old or just a troll. GTFO.
kahawe 15y ago
> but at least Google's main goal is deliver intelligent services like search and machine translation And at last Apple's goal is to deliver easily usable, reliable and sexy hardware and software and they are forerunners in quite a few markets they created on their own. See, that marketing-babble works even for Microsoft and Oracle too. Google's goal is to get as much diverse data from you as possible and legal. Stop cutting a multi-billion dollar multi-national mega-corp all that slack all the time - especially considering how much flak they were and are getting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google And on top of that they were pretty much the only search engine for the web for a long time, so much so that "google" has become synonymous with internet for the average user. At least now there is a bit of competition from wolfram and microsoft and DDG is trying real hard. But google is clearly dominating this market and also the online ads business. Apple can only dream of coming close to this amount of market penetration. > No I haven't because I made it clear that first and foremost I want _personal control_ over my own computer. I don't see why you don't understand this principle. Because control of your computer includes control over your data. And you were saying you can allegedly NOT use any proprietary systems because of your work but then it is ok to use completely proprietary services way out of your control? Well look at that, actually it is just your own personal preferences which makes more sense since if you were really legally required, you couldn't use google or any other cloud services. > Getting the tyrants at Apple Again, you are mis-using words. Tyranny means they are alone and have all the control and are enforcing it brutally... this is complete, utter bullshit. There are lots of alternatives and on top of that, all this DRM and control for the music was a requirement from the RIAA. They did not understand this new way of selling music online and wanted as much control as possible. And since Apple made that compromise, they were the first ones to provide a legal and usable way of selling music online. And by doing this, they have shown how successful this way of distributing is thus finally they were allowed to drop the DRM. Do you really think Apple cares about controlling whether you distribute your music to 2 or 5 end systems? Then you are even more naive than I have thought. > It is pretty convenient for them to use (steal?) source code from BSD Waaaaaait a minute, back up. Drop the fundamentalist brain-wash bullshit-talk. BSD has always been released under the BSD license and there are many, many, MANY implementations and re-uses of their code, both open and closed, private, educational and commercial and not a single one has been "stolen". It is perfectly legal and encouraged to use the code any way you want and why should Apple go with other sources that ultimately force them to do things hardly any company does with profitable products? Anyone who ever contributed to BSD licensed software is aware of this and it has worked perfectly fine for decades. Nothing was stolen here. It is perfectly alright for a company to choose whichever software and license agreement they see fit. And there is hardly any commercial software released under the "viral" FSF licenses. And Apple has released a lot of components from their OS, again under a BSD style license. Nothing to see here. > it won't be "good enough" until they adopt a business model that is not based upon dominating other people's computers. See, here is the point: that is your borderline-religious opinion. Nobody really cares about this. if you don't like their product because it is not as open as you like then don't buy it. And if you don't like the price on a Lexus or Ferrari then don't buy one. Nothing to see here. You have clearly made up your mind and are not interested in a discussion. You much rather poo-fling the one or two (out-dated) bits you can get a hold of. And it has got nothing to do with how the overwhelming majority of successful software and hardware companies work. Some are very open, some are completely closed. Luckily there are a lot of alternatives for everything. But your zealot-hatred for Apple is just hilarious considering how 5 to 10 years ago hardly ANYONE knew Apple let alone used any of their products and back in those dark ages there was nothing but Microsoft for the average end user. Apple has come a long way on their own and they have single-handedly created markets that did NOT exist before - like legally buying music and tv shows online. Like the iPad and like the iPhone. Yes there were those ridiculous windows ce "smartphones" before but Apple created the market for the modern smartphone and the oh-so-beloved "apps". And google was all too happy to follow, seeing the opportunity for more data and ads. Any data I feed my mac, I can always export and take with me to any other platform... there is absolutely no DRM on my Mac keeping me from doing whatever I want. Your demeanor is really cute and very much like the blind fanboys in the huge Linux vs. Windows flamewars back in the day... the 90s called, they want their zealots back. And I dare you, you show me a single contribution you have ever made to Linux? Or free software? You show me a single instance where you actually looked at all that free software kernel code and helped make sure there wasn't anything fishy going on. Or are you just talking big about free software without ever having contributed hm? This is pointless here since you make your own product choice and your own personal preferences to be something like a categorical imperative that you want to force on everyone despite the normative power of the factual.

by jhuni 15y ago

myspy 15y ago

You are a pretty big fool, believing Apple is to blame for pricing in the iTunes Store. The content providers set the prices, not Apple. They just distribute and take a small share. And how is Apple dominating my computer? I have no clue what you mean.

jhuni 15y ago
You are a pretty big fool, believing Apple is to blame for pricing in the iTunes Store. The content providers set the prices, not Apple. I didn't say Apple personally set the prices, I just stated that Apple's business model is dependent upon blockbuster hits. Google's business model, on the other hand, is dependent upon advertisements. And how is Apple dominating my computer? I have no clue what you mean. I am not sure of your particular case, however, Apple is a prominent user of DRM which they use to restrict and control millions of people's computers: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple
- myspy 15y ago
  Now I see what you mean, but I wouldn't say your source is reliable. I can see where your opinion comes from, but you should consider more sources. Most of those points are either incorrect or don't take into account what the goal of all companies on this planet is. Making money. Ideology is good for yourself but won't feed you or buy you a house. A middle ground is the way to go. And Apples middle ground is quality products with proprietary software. You can't control the quality of your products, when opening it up to the competition (Palm Pre). As some said before Google does this too. You won't get their search engine code, nor will Apple give you iOS.
  - jhuni 15y ago
    Apple won't give me iOS, yet Google will give me more then enough of Android. Google FTW. I rest my case.
    - kahawe 15y ago
      > Google will give me Yet google will not give you any code to their actual core services. > Google FTW. I rest my case. Yea, this is what this whole "discussion" has been about... go figure, you were right from the beginning until now!!! Congratulations, you haven't learned a thing. You are either mentally 14 years old or just a troll. GTFO.

kahawe 15y ago

> but at least Google's main goal is deliver intelligent services like search and machine translation And at last Apple's goal is to deliver easily usable, reliable and sexy hardware and software and they are forerunners in quite a few markets they created on their own. See, that marketing-babble works even for Microsoft and Oracle too. Google's goal is to get as much diverse data from you as possible and legal. Stop cutting a multi-billion dollar multi-national mega-corp all that slack all the time - especially considering how much flak they were and are getting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google And on top of that they were pretty much the only search engine for the web for a long time, so much so that "google" has become synonymous with internet for the average user. At least now there is a bit of competition from wolfram and microsoft and DDG is trying real hard. But google is clearly dominating this market and also the online ads business. Apple can only dream of coming close to this amount of market penetration. > No I haven't because I made it clear that first and foremost I want _personal control_ over my own computer. I don't see why you don't understand this principle. Because control of your computer includes control over your data. And you were saying you can allegedly NOT use any proprietary systems because of your work but then it is ok to use completely proprietary services way out of your control? Well look at that, actually it is just your own personal preferences which makes more sense since if you were really legally required, you couldn't use google or any other cloud services. > Getting the tyrants at Apple Again, you are mis-using words. Tyranny means they are alone and have all the control and are enforcing it brutally... this is complete, utter bullshit. There are lots of alternatives and on top of that, all this DRM and control for the music was a requirement from the RIAA. They did not understand this new way of selling music online and wanted as much control as possible. And since Apple made that compromise, they were the first ones to provide a legal and usable way of selling music online. And by doing this, they have shown how successful this way of distributing is thus finally they were allowed to drop the DRM. Do you really think Apple cares about controlling whether you distribute your music to 2 or 5 end systems? Then you are even more naive than I have thought. > It is pretty convenient for them to use (steal?) source code from BSD Waaaaaait a minute, back up. Drop the fundamentalist brain-wash bullshit-talk. BSD has always been released under the BSD license and there are many, many, MANY implementations and re-uses of their code, both open and closed, private, educational and commercial and not a single one has been "stolen". It is perfectly legal and encouraged to use the code any way you want and why should Apple go with other sources that ultimately force them to do things hardly any company does with profitable products? Anyone who ever contributed to BSD licensed software is aware of this and it has worked perfectly fine for decades. Nothing was stolen here. It is perfectly alright for a company to choose whichever software and license agreement they see fit. And there is hardly any commercial software released under the "viral" FSF licenses. And Apple has released a lot of components from their OS, again under a BSD style license. Nothing to see here. > it won't be "good enough" until they adopt a business model that is not based upon dominating other people's computers. See, here is the point: that is your borderline-religious opinion. Nobody really cares about this. if you don't like their product because it is not as open as you like then don't buy it. And if you don't like the price on a Lexus or Ferrari then don't buy one. Nothing to see here. You have clearly made up your mind and are not interested in a discussion. You much rather poo-fling the one or two (out-dated) bits you can get a hold of. And it has got nothing to do with how the overwhelming majority of successful software and hardware companies work. Some are very open, some are completely closed. Luckily there are a lot of alternatives for everything. But your zealot-hatred for Apple is just hilarious considering how 5 to 10 years ago hardly ANYONE knew Apple let alone used any of their products and back in those dark ages there was nothing but Microsoft for the average end user. Apple has come a long way on their own and they have single-handedly created markets that did NOT exist before - like legally buying music and tv shows online. Like the iPad and like the iPhone. Yes there were those ridiculous windows ce "smartphones" before but Apple created the market for the modern smartphone and the oh-so-beloved "apps". And google was all too happy to follow, seeing the opportunity for more data and ads. Any data I feed my mac, I can always export and take with me to any other platform... there is absolutely no DRM on my Mac keeping me from doing whatever I want. Your demeanor is really cute and very much like the blind fanboys in the huge Linux vs. Windows flamewars back in the day... the 90s called, they want their zealots back. And I dare you, you show me a single contribution you have ever made to Linux? Or free software? You show me a single instance where you actually looked at all that free software kernel code and helped make sure there wasn't anything fishy going on. Or are you just talking big about free software without ever having contributed hm? This is pointless here since you make your own product choice and your own personal preferences to be something like a categorical imperative that you want to force on everyone despite the normative power of the factual.