4 ms·

> The problem statement doesn't permit him to choose the prize. I agree, but this subthread is discussing a misinterpretation of the problem statement, and ask

> The problem statement doesn't permit him to choose the prize. I agree, but this subthread is discussing a misinterpretation of the problem statement, and asking the question about whether switching still matters if the host is also picking randomly. This is showing that it does in fact matter whether the host is picking deliberately or randomly.

Jtsummers 4y ago
OP for the thread: > I was told about this problem and the person telling it didn't say anything about that, just that you pick a door and the host opens another one which doesn't have a prize behind it. So I thought the probabilities don't change at all because the host just picked a random door. [emphasis mine] It doesn't matter if it was at random or deliberate. It matters that a non-prize (goat in most versions) is revealed. The question is about one very specific scenario, even in what antris was originally given: The goat is revealed. In that scenario, you switch. The OP misunderstood the problem because they forgot (as many others have in this discussion) that it's about one scenario, not about all times. If Monty selects a door at random and reveals the prize, then it's not this same scenario anymore so the odds of that situation are necessarily different over all scenarios. And if we include all possible scenarios (really, two) then the odds of winning drop, but only because you have a 100% chance of losing when he reveals the prize (or 100% chance of winning and the odds increase). This is the fundamental misunderstanding in many of the comments. If I tell you, "We select, each day, either a prize or a tiger to put behind this door at random. Today it's the tiger. Do you open it?" You'd be a fool to open it. And over all scenarios you'd have a (if chosen uniformly) 50/50 chance of getting the prize or the tiger. But if today I tell you, "It's the prize" should you open it? There's a 100% chance it's the prize, I've told you it's the prize. Now we can get into adversarial situations, whether I'm honest or not. But that's diving into something entirely different and makes it impossible to consider the problem statement because we'll be chasing nonsense after a few minutes. I've just told you, 100% chance it's the prize today. You should open it. The Monty Hall problem is the same. It is one scenario, a goat is revealed. The reason or mechanism of that reveal is irrelevant. He could know it, he could not know it. He could have revealed the goat by dumb luck. Or maybe because it started kicking at the door and was too obvious not to reveal. But today, for this game show he revealed a goat. So your odds are better if you switch. And even antris' original statement presented that scenario, they just answered a different question.
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  > It doesn't matter if it was at random or deliberate. It matters that a non-prize (goat in most versions) is revealed. The question is about one very specific scenario, even in what antris was originally given: The goat is revealed. In that scenario, you switch. You can just go back to the simulation numbers and check. If you eliminate the games where Monty "wins" (i.e., reveals the prize), you are in the specific scenario you described. You have chosen a door and Monty has revealed a goat, and you win 3309 times by staying and 3307 times by switching. If you rewrite the simulation to follow the correct problem statement (that Monty knows and always picks a goat), you will see that switching is in fact the correct strategy.

Jtsummers 4y ago

OP for the thread: > I was told about this problem and the person telling it didn't say anything about that, just that you pick a door and the host opens another one which doesn't have a prize behind it. So I thought the probabilities don't change at all because the host just picked a random door. [emphasis mine] It doesn't matter if it was at random or deliberate. It matters that a non-prize (goat in most versions) is revealed. The question is about one very specific scenario, even in what antris was originally given: The goat is revealed. In that scenario, you switch. The OP misunderstood the problem because they forgot (as many others have in this discussion) that it's about one scenario, not about all times. If Monty selects a door at random and reveals the prize, then it's not this same scenario anymore so the odds of that situation are necessarily different over all scenarios. And if we include all possible scenarios (really, two) then the odds of winning drop, but only because you have a 100% chance of losing when he reveals the prize (or 100% chance of winning and the odds increase). This is the fundamental misunderstanding in many of the comments. If I tell you, "We select, each day, either a prize or a tiger to put behind this door at random. Today it's the tiger. Do you open it?" You'd be a fool to open it. And over all scenarios you'd have a (if chosen uniformly) 50/50 chance of getting the prize or the tiger. But if today I tell you, "It's the prize" should you open it? There's a 100% chance it's the prize, I've told you it's the prize. Now we can get into adversarial situations, whether I'm honest or not. But that's diving into something entirely different and makes it impossible to consider the problem statement because we'll be chasing nonsense after a few minutes. I've just told you, 100% chance it's the prize today. You should open it. The Monty Hall problem is the same. It is one scenario, a goat is revealed. The reason or mechanism of that reveal is irrelevant. He could know it, he could not know it. He could have revealed the goat by dumb luck. Or maybe because it started kicking at the door and was too obvious not to reveal. But today, for this game show he revealed a goat. So your odds are better if you switch. And even antris' original statement presented that scenario, they just answered a different question.

jdminhbg 4y ago
> It doesn't matter if it was at random or deliberate. It matters that a non-prize (goat in most versions) is revealed. The question is about one very specific scenario, even in what antris was originally given: The goat is revealed. In that scenario, you switch. You can just go back to the simulation numbers and check. If you eliminate the games where Monty "wins" (i.e., reveals the prize), you are in the specific scenario you described. You have chosen a door and Monty has revealed a goat, and you win 3309 times by staying and 3307 times by switching. If you rewrite the simulation to follow the correct problem statement (that Monty knows and always picks a goat), you will see that switching is in fact the correct strategy.