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You don't pay for the fees...the vendor does. Not to mention all of the other fees they rake in. You can have other ways of making sure payments are safeguard

You don't pay for the fees...the vendor does. Not to mention all of the other fees they rake in. You can have other ways of making sure payments are safeguarded...actually one of the smartest ways to do this was setup on the dark web illegal markets where there was a middle man that didn't have custody of the money (at least in the best multisig ones) but was able to complete or reverse transactions if needed. Basically an escrow account... https://darknetone.com/understanding-multisig-vs-escrow-vs-finalize-early-on-darknet-markets/ https://darknetone.com/understanding-multisig-vs-escrow-vs-f...

kkielhofner 4y ago
We all pay for the fees but IMO it's more than worth it considering all of the things I mentioned and more. The other fees they rake in (I'm assuming you mean interest) are from issuing unsecured loans. That's another topic entirely. Escrow is many thousands of years old and certainly exists in many forms in the financial system today. It's just that because of all of the other things I mentioned the average person uses it maybe a few times in their lives for very large and complicated transactions. The suggestion to use escrow or some other kind of really convoluted system for extremely small payments when I can swipe a card anywhere in the world with all of the benefits mentioned above and more for relatively tiny fees is frankly ridiculous. Of course it makes sense for marketplaces where every single actor in the marketplace is breaking the law in the first place. I've been involved in crypto since 2017 and I'm STILL waiting for a reasonable use case or application where it results in a net benefit for the average person.
- j_walter 4y ago
  How about real estate transactions. What fees are the average buyer and seller having to pay along with how many third party people have worked themselves into the fold to get their piece of the action? Why would you need title insurance when the blockchain holds all the information? Why would sellers need to pay up to 6% to a realtor and buyers pay thousands in closing costs...because there is a disparity in access to information. Crypto/Blockchains can change that. Oh...and wire transfers can take up to 7 days before they are finalized. Crypto transfers it's generally considered settled in a few minutes.
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    You're absolutely correct in that real estate is a mess and blockchain could clean up and streamline a few aspects of a real estate transaction. Problem is the existing systems have a lot of catching up to do. There was a story of a house being sold as an NFT... Purely promotional gimmick as the only thing that mattered (transfer of deed, etc) had nothing to do with the blockchain and the NFT representing the property has no legal meaning whatsoever. Wire transfers can take several days, I suppose depending on mechanism/method. That said anyone who's participated in a real estate closing, funding round, etc knows you receive bank confirmation of the wire in minutes-hours and it's a done deal. In funding companies, for example, I've personally experienced this with wires in the tens of millions of dollars.
    - j_walter 4y ago
      >That said anyone who's participated in a real estate closing, funding round, etc knows you receive bank confirmation of the wire in minutes-hours and it's a done deal. In funding companies, for example, I've personally experienced this with wires in the tens of millions of dollars. You are correct...but again this is something the average Joe doesn't have access to. With crypto/blockchain everyone has the same access (more or less) at their fingertips. It's not a perfect system yet for sure...there is a long way to go, but it is a huge leap forward in leveling the playing field for financial usage for everyone (I mean just looking at western union in 2021 they had $5B in revenue...that's about 5% of the transaction amount with an average transaction size of $300).
  - abirch 4y ago
    The blockchain ownership may be flawed, just like the current paper one. That's why you'd still need title insurance. Sellers and buyers don't need agents right now. Thanks to Zillow, the price disparity is moot. I knew more than my past real estate agent when I purchased my current house (it was a corporate move or I wouldn't have used one.) Wire transfers should be instant and irreversible, that's why scammers use them. Where have you seen one that takes 7 days?
    - 4y ago

kkielhofner 4y ago

We all pay for the fees but IMO it's more than worth it considering all of the things I mentioned and more. The other fees they rake in (I'm assuming you mean interest) are from issuing unsecured loans. That's another topic entirely. Escrow is many thousands of years old and certainly exists in many forms in the financial system today. It's just that because of all of the other things I mentioned the average person uses it maybe a few times in their lives for very large and complicated transactions. The suggestion to use escrow or some other kind of really convoluted system for extremely small payments when I can swipe a card anywhere in the world with all of the benefits mentioned above and more for relatively tiny fees is frankly ridiculous. Of course it makes sense for marketplaces where every single actor in the marketplace is breaking the law in the first place. I've been involved in crypto since 2017 and I'm STILL waiting for a reasonable use case or application where it results in a net benefit for the average person.

j_walter 4y ago
How about real estate transactions. What fees are the average buyer and seller having to pay along with how many third party people have worked themselves into the fold to get their piece of the action? Why would you need title insurance when the blockchain holds all the information? Why would sellers need to pay up to 6% to a realtor and buyers pay thousands in closing costs...because there is a disparity in access to information. Crypto/Blockchains can change that. Oh...and wire transfers can take up to 7 days before they are finalized. Crypto transfers it's generally considered settled in a few minutes.
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  You're absolutely correct in that real estate is a mess and blockchain could clean up and streamline a few aspects of a real estate transaction. Problem is the existing systems have a lot of catching up to do. There was a story of a house being sold as an NFT... Purely promotional gimmick as the only thing that mattered (transfer of deed, etc) had nothing to do with the blockchain and the NFT representing the property has no legal meaning whatsoever. Wire transfers can take several days, I suppose depending on mechanism/method. That said anyone who's participated in a real estate closing, funding round, etc knows you receive bank confirmation of the wire in minutes-hours and it's a done deal. In funding companies, for example, I've personally experienced this with wires in the tens of millions of dollars.
  - j_walter 4y ago
    >That said anyone who's participated in a real estate closing, funding round, etc knows you receive bank confirmation of the wire in minutes-hours and it's a done deal. In funding companies, for example, I've personally experienced this with wires in the tens of millions of dollars. You are correct...but again this is something the average Joe doesn't have access to. With crypto/blockchain everyone has the same access (more or less) at their fingertips. It's not a perfect system yet for sure...there is a long way to go, but it is a huge leap forward in leveling the playing field for financial usage for everyone (I mean just looking at western union in 2021 they had $5B in revenue...that's about 5% of the transaction amount with an average transaction size of $300).
- abirch 4y ago
  The blockchain ownership may be flawed, just like the current paper one. That's why you'd still need title insurance. Sellers and buyers don't need agents right now. Thanks to Zillow, the price disparity is moot. I knew more than my past real estate agent when I purchased my current house (it was a corporate move or I wouldn't have used one.) Wire transfers should be instant and irreversible, that's why scammers use them. Where have you seen one that takes 7 days?
  - 4y ago