3 ms·

Unfortunately, when it comes to nuclear Europe's (excluding Russia) basically in the same boat as the US. Consulting the current list of nuclear power plants u

Unfortunately, when it comes to nuclear Europe's (excluding Russia) basically in the same boat as the US. Consulting the current list of nuclear power plants under construction around the world by a pro-nuclear power group here: https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu... I see the following as the only ones still under construction in all of Europe (not counting Belarus and Russia): 1) Mochovce 3 in Slovakia. Construction started November 2008, originally scheduled to complete in 2012, now hopefully complete later this year, so 15 years total, 10 years late. 2) Flamenville 3 in France. Construction started in 2007, originally scheduled to complete in 2012. Hopefully complete in 2023, so 16 years later, 11 years late. 3) Mochovce 4 in Slovakia. Construction started November 2008, original scheduled to complete in 2013, now hopefully complete in 2023, so 16 years total, 10 years late. 4,5) Hinkley Point C1 and C2 in the UK. Construction started in roughly 2008, originally expected to be online 2022 or so ("early 2020s" is the best I can find with Google now, and that's for both C1 and C2 to be online). Now C1 is expected to be complete in 2027, and C2 in 2028. So 19-20 years total, 6 years late. (The US has two reactors on the list, Vogtle 3 and 4, started in 2009, originally expected to finish in 2016 and 2017, now expected to finish in 2023.) I suspect that Europe's success in building rapid transit, compared to America, is due to the fact that they were continuously building such systems, whereas the US largely hasn't, so there is no cohort of engineers and workers who learned-by-doing and get better over time. But in nuclear, those workers seem to have gone in Europe as well- you can see from this 2020 chart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#/media/File:Histogramme_des_%C3%A2ges_des_r%C3%A9acteurs_nucl%C3%A9aires_fran%C3%A7ais_en_service_en_2020.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#/media...) that France built almost all of their reactors in a giant lump between 1970 and 1983, built a few reactors later in the 1980s (presumably late career work from the people who had built so many earlier), and has found building a new reactor to be really hard, e.g. Flamenville 3 is just as big a disaster as Vogtle.

thow-58d4e8b 4y ago
To add one more data point - Olkiluoto 3, started 2005, was expected to finish in 2009. Completed late 2021, 12 years late Cherry on top - after producing electricity for about a week, it had to shut down for another 3 months. Then, after ramping up to about 30% of the capacity, it encountered another problem, delaying it for another 5 months. Here we are in June 2022, 17 years later, Olkiluoto 3 provides exactly 0 MW to the Finnish grid
spc476 4y ago
I also recall reading (somewhere) that France basically ended up with two nuclear power plan designs used repeatedly, unlike in the US where nearly every nuclear power plant is unique. That might account for the lower costs shown in the article.
- mandevil 4y ago
  That is true for the 1970's and 1980's boom of production in France, but is not true at present: the EPR they are building at Flamenville 3 and Hinkley Point C1+C2 are the sum total of those reactors currently under construction, and none are currently operational, so those three are likely to be the total number ever built. It is true that the 34 CPY reactors, and the 20 P4 reactors, were produced in large enough numbers to create a skilled class of workers and engineers who were deeply experienced with building these reactors, but right now all of those workers are retired. And honestly, from observation, it appears that rebuilding competence like this is a lot harder than building it in the first place: when you are building the first time everyone- the general public, the regulators, the workers themselves- are more forgiving. When you've lost that capacity and are trying to rebuild it you have expectations set for a mature industry, but the skills aren't there to deliver it.
  - k8wk1 4y ago
    There are also 2 EPR designs producing electricity in China since 2019, so your sources aren't correct.
    - mandevil 4y ago
      Thank you, missed those two in China. Similar to the AP1000, China can build these licensed designs faster than the flagships, missed that.
k8wk1 4y ago
Hinkley point construction started 2017, not 2008. In 2008 even the site wasn't picked yet.
- mandevil 4y ago
  The Hinkley Point story is very complicated, indeed. But I believe you will find that initial work to clear space and create parking for the future construction site started in 2008, then the EDF acquisition shenanigans and British government shenanigans came along and massively delayed the project.

thow-58d4e8b 4y ago

To add one more data point - Olkiluoto 3, started 2005, was expected to finish in 2009. Completed late 2021, 12 years late Cherry on top - after producing electricity for about a week, it had to shut down for another 3 months. Then, after ramping up to about 30% of the capacity, it encountered another problem, delaying it for another 5 months. Here we are in June 2022, 17 years later, Olkiluoto 3 provides exactly 0 MW to the Finnish grid

spc476 4y ago

I also recall reading (somewhere) that France basically ended up with two nuclear power plan designs used repeatedly, unlike in the US where nearly every nuclear power plant is unique. That might account for the lower costs shown in the article.

mandevil 4y ago
That is true for the 1970's and 1980's boom of production in France, but is not true at present: the EPR they are building at Flamenville 3 and Hinkley Point C1+C2 are the sum total of those reactors currently under construction, and none are currently operational, so those three are likely to be the total number ever built. It is true that the 34 CPY reactors, and the 20 P4 reactors, were produced in large enough numbers to create a skilled class of workers and engineers who were deeply experienced with building these reactors, but right now all of those workers are retired. And honestly, from observation, it appears that rebuilding competence like this is a lot harder than building it in the first place: when you are building the first time everyone- the general public, the regulators, the workers themselves- are more forgiving. When you've lost that capacity and are trying to rebuild it you have expectations set for a mature industry, but the skills aren't there to deliver it.
- k8wk1 4y ago
  There are also 2 EPR designs producing electricity in China since 2019, so your sources aren't correct.
  - mandevil 4y ago
    Thank you, missed those two in China. Similar to the AP1000, China can build these licensed designs faster than the flagships, missed that.

k8wk1 4y ago

Hinkley point construction started 2017, not 2008. In 2008 even the site wasn't picked yet.

mandevil 4y ago
The Hinkley Point story is very complicated, indeed. But I believe you will find that initial work to clear space and create parking for the future construction site started in 2008, then the EDF acquisition shenanigans and British government shenanigans came along and massively delayed the project.