5 ms·

What does secession even mean? People living in the state will still pay federal taxes (the true source of federal power). Declare all federal laws invalid? Thi

What does secession even mean? People living in the state will still pay federal taxes (the true source of federal power). Declare all federal laws invalid? This is such a fantasy I don't even know why people discuss it. Ever since the Interstate commerce act and threading of federal funds into states it has become impossible to realistically secede even if you could logistically pull it off.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
Secession would mean not paying federal taxes and repossessing federal assets within the seceding state. If you look to the Civil war, fighting wasn't kicked off by the declaration of separation, the flashpoint was possession of federal armories in southern states. I agree it is largely fantasy. The federal gov would never hand over bases in Texas, ect.
- munk-a 4y ago
  I mean - only if the state residents revoked their citizenship. As a US citizen you enjoy the pleasure of paying federal taxes no matter where in the world you live.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    While generally true, this is on income over 110K and you can get a US tax credit for foreign taxes payed. It is strange that the US is one of the only countries in the world to tax citizens abroad.
  - krapp 4y ago
    Secession from the United States by definition means a revocation of citizenship. They're no longer a state, they're a nation that just happens to share landmass with the US, like Canada and Mexico, and their people are no longer American citizens, but citizens of that nation.
    - munk-a 4y ago
      Would that be all citizens? Using Florida as an example if they seceded would all current Florida residents lose their US citizenship? What about people visiting Florida - or those with multiple homes (snow birds etc...)? What if you personally object to the secession - would the US allow you to retain your citizenship and "immigrate" to Georgia? And, what if Florida refused to recognize a class of residents as new citizens? What would happen to all the federal prisoners located in Florida when secession happened - Florida probably doesn't want to adopt a large population of incarcerated Americans, they'd probably try to give them back to America somehow - ditto for incarcerated Floridians being held outside the state - though Florida might not want them back anyways. I think, at EOD, the US would probably offer continued US citizenship to any Florida residents who refused to accept Florida citizenship - which would likely result in Florida being a majority expat country, since, would you rather throw your personal future in with some new secessionist government or an established government that might end up eating Florida in a few weeks anyways?
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  And let's suppose Texas secedes. An outsized portion of their economy is dependent both directly and indirectly on the US gov't via the military (and defense contractors) and NASA (and related contractors). 99% of that work would leave the state, and even if the employees decided to stay they'd have no income sources which has a great ripple effect on the area (see what happens in the small when factories leave towns). And other portions of their economy are dependent on being a port (both land and sea) for goods entering and leaving the US, much of which would be redirected to other areas unless US purchasers decide to pay extra costs to import through Texas (unlikely).

s1artibartfast 4y ago

Secession would mean not paying federal taxes and repossessing federal assets within the seceding state. If you look to the Civil war, fighting wasn't kicked off by the declaration of separation, the flashpoint was possession of federal armories in southern states. I agree it is largely fantasy. The federal gov would never hand over bases in Texas, ect.

munk-a 4y ago
I mean - only if the state residents revoked their citizenship. As a US citizen you enjoy the pleasure of paying federal taxes no matter where in the world you live.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  While generally true, this is on income over 110K and you can get a US tax credit for foreign taxes payed. It is strange that the US is one of the only countries in the world to tax citizens abroad.
- krapp 4y ago
  Secession from the United States by definition means a revocation of citizenship. They're no longer a state, they're a nation that just happens to share landmass with the US, like Canada and Mexico, and their people are no longer American citizens, but citizens of that nation.
  - munk-a 4y ago
    Would that be all citizens? Using Florida as an example if they seceded would all current Florida residents lose their US citizenship? What about people visiting Florida - or those with multiple homes (snow birds etc...)? What if you personally object to the secession - would the US allow you to retain your citizenship and "immigrate" to Georgia? And, what if Florida refused to recognize a class of residents as new citizens? What would happen to all the federal prisoners located in Florida when secession happened - Florida probably doesn't want to adopt a large population of incarcerated Americans, they'd probably try to give them back to America somehow - ditto for incarcerated Floridians being held outside the state - though Florida might not want them back anyways. I think, at EOD, the US would probably offer continued US citizenship to any Florida residents who refused to accept Florida citizenship - which would likely result in Florida being a majority expat country, since, would you rather throw your personal future in with some new secessionist government or an established government that might end up eating Florida in a few weeks anyways?
Jtsummers 4y ago
And let's suppose Texas secedes. An outsized portion of their economy is dependent both directly and indirectly on the US gov't via the military (and defense contractors) and NASA (and related contractors). 99% of that work would leave the state, and even if the employees decided to stay they'd have no income sources which has a great ripple effect on the area (see what happens in the small when factories leave towns). And other portions of their economy are dependent on being a port (both land and sea) for goods entering and leaving the US, much of which would be redirected to other areas unless US purchasers decide to pay extra costs to import through Texas (unlikely).