8 ms·

DAWs use XML, to the author's point. I'm not familiar enough with AAA development but I wouldn't be surprised at all if JSON and XML make a showing there as wel

by bckr 4y ago

DAWs use XML, to the author's point. I'm not familiar enough with AAA development but I wouldn't be surprised at all if JSON and XML make a showing there as well. That's not to mention that if the game is online, it certainly uses some combination of HTTP and sockets.

capableweb 4y ago
Which DAWs use XML specifically? Haven't digged deep, but I never found any XML when dealing with any DAW. Games don't use HTTP (or WebSockets, which I suppose you mean) for gameplay. Maybe for stats, lobbies or such, but gameplay networking mostly happens over UDP.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  Ardour uses XML (and thus so does Mixbus and the now defunct-but-available Waves Tracks Live).
- bckr 4y ago
  Take any DAW project file and unzip it. It's probably XML. True for Ableton Live and Reaper.
- symfoniq 4y ago
  Cubase uses XML for config files (expression maps, etc).
rootlocus 4y ago
Last time I was interested in this, most AAA games used some sort of html solution for UIs: scaleform [1] / awesomium / ultralight [2]. 1. https://www.birdtools-developers.com/scaleform/ https://www.birdtools-developers.com/scaleform/ 2. https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
XML predates the web because, as wikipedia puts it: > XML is an application profile of SGML (ISO 8879) The same page also notes: > most of XML comes from SGML unchanged. XML is, therefore, not "web technology". It has been used within a web context, but predates the web in almost all senses other than having actually been created by the W3C.
- bckr 4y ago
  Interesting, thanks. I think the semantics "web tech" can be argued, but factually tye invention of SGML is dated at 1986 and of the web at 1989. So that's interesting.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > XML predates the web because, as wikipedia puts it: > > XML is an application profile of SGML (ISO 8879 That doesn't mean it predates the web... HTML is an application profile of SGML, too, so by your argument HTML predates the web (as it would have to, if XML did, not only for that reason, but because factually HTML predates XML) and is not web technology. This, of course, is silly. XML was consciously modelled on HTML but generalized for arbitrary data. It is very much web, or at least web-inspired, technology.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    This is backwards. SGML -> HTML -> world decides HTML is too limited -> XML All are the progeny of SGML; HTML is "novel" because of how limited it was; by opening up the scope of XML to more or less all of SGML, it is much less "of the web" than HTML was. I was working with and paying attention to markup schemes and languages from the mid-80s. At the time XML emerged, I remember a giant collective yawn from that side of the software world, precisely because it just seemed that W3C had decided to embrace-but-not-really-extend SGML.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > This is backwards But the order you recite to support this description is the same order as in my description you are responding to. What does “backwards” mean to you? > by opening up the scope of XML to more or less all of SGML, it is much less "of the web" than HTML was. It's true that XML covers about the entire semantic space of SGML, but it deliberately does so with a much smaller syntactic space, inspired largely by HTML in its approach. To say it wasn't “of the web” ignores the history of inspiration, development, standardization, and use. > I was working with and paying attention to markup schemes and languages from the mid-80s. At the time XML emerged, I remember a giant collective yawn from that side of the software world, precisely because it just seemed that W3C had decided to embrace-but-not-really-extend SGML. Yeah, and like the famous Slashdot CmdrTaco response to the iPod (“No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.”), that response missed what was relevant in the real world completely, XML (as bad a reputation for heavyweight implementations as it has compared to some more modern data representations), while in principal an application of SGML is much lighter weight to implement tooling for and a much smaller conceptual space for humans to understand (traits it shared with its inspiration, HTML.) Progress isn't always by extension, it's often by recognizing and eliminating what is superfluous to requirements. “It seems that perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” — Antoine de Saint Exupéry

by bckr 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago

Which DAWs use XML specifically? Haven't digged deep, but I never found any XML when dealing with any DAW. Games don't use HTTP (or WebSockets, which I suppose you mean) for gameplay. Maybe for stats, lobbies or such, but gameplay networking mostly happens over UDP.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
Ardour uses XML (and thus so does Mixbus and the now defunct-but-available Waves Tracks Live).
bckr 4y ago
Take any DAW project file and unzip it. It's probably XML. True for Ableton Live and Reaper.
symfoniq 4y ago
Cubase uses XML for config files (expression maps, etc).

rootlocus 4y ago

Last time I was interested in this, most AAA games used some sort of html solution for UIs: scaleform [1] / awesomium / ultralight [2]. 1. https://www.birdtools-developers.com/scaleform/ https://www.birdtools-developers.com/scaleform/ 2. https://ultralig.ht/ https://ultralig.ht/

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

XML predates the web because, as wikipedia puts it: > XML is an application profile of SGML (ISO 8879) The same page also notes: > most of XML comes from SGML unchanged. XML is, therefore, not "web technology". It has been used within a web context, but predates the web in almost all senses other than having actually been created by the W3C.

bckr 4y ago
Interesting, thanks. I think the semantics "web tech" can be argued, but factually tye invention of SGML is dated at 1986 and of the web at 1989. So that's interesting.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> XML predates the web because, as wikipedia puts it: > > XML is an application profile of SGML (ISO 8879 That doesn't mean it predates the web... HTML is an application profile of SGML, too, so by your argument HTML predates the web (as it would have to, if XML did, not only for that reason, but because factually HTML predates XML) and is not web technology. This, of course, is silly. XML was consciously modelled on HTML but generalized for arbitrary data. It is very much web, or at least web-inspired, technology.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  This is backwards. SGML -> HTML -> world decides HTML is too limited -> XML All are the progeny of SGML; HTML is "novel" because of how limited it was; by opening up the scope of XML to more or less all of SGML, it is much less "of the web" than HTML was. I was working with and paying attention to markup schemes and languages from the mid-80s. At the time XML emerged, I remember a giant collective yawn from that side of the software world, precisely because it just seemed that W3C had decided to embrace-but-not-really-extend SGML.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > This is backwards But the order you recite to support this description is the same order as in my description you are responding to. What does “backwards” mean to you? > by opening up the scope of XML to more or less all of SGML, it is much less "of the web" than HTML was. It's true that XML covers about the entire semantic space of SGML, but it deliberately does so with a much smaller syntactic space, inspired largely by HTML in its approach. To say it wasn't “of the web” ignores the history of inspiration, development, standardization, and use. > I was working with and paying attention to markup schemes and languages from the mid-80s. At the time XML emerged, I remember a giant collective yawn from that side of the software world, precisely because it just seemed that W3C had decided to embrace-but-not-really-extend SGML. Yeah, and like the famous Slashdot CmdrTaco response to the iPod (“No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.”), that response missed what was relevant in the real world completely, XML (as bad a reputation for heavyweight implementations as it has compared to some more modern data representations), while in principal an application of SGML is much lighter weight to implement tooling for and a much smaller conceptual space for humans to understand (traits it shared with its inspiration, HTML.) Progress isn't always by extension, it's often by recognizing and eliminating what is superfluous to requirements. “It seems that perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” — Antoine de Saint Exupéry